To think that many of the people shouting about Gary Lineker's "freedom of speech" are happy to shut women down?

[Qbish]

It's marvelous, isn't it, "freedom of speech". It's marvelous when it's something nice and progressive that you agree with.

But if it's something you deem to be unacceptable... then shut it down! Cancel her! No platform her! Burn her books! Get her sacked! Picket anywhere she's booked to speak! Many of the same types who support Gary wouldn't hesitate to tell a woman to keep quiet, sit down, shut up. And they can't even see that.

Yeah, I don't remember the BBC scratching their heads and agreeing to change their policy when Jenni Murray expressed the view that men who have begun to identify as women late in life don't have much idea about the lived experience of biological women, and the feminist theories that arise from it.

She was cautioned never to speak on the subject again. None of her high profile colleagues sprang to her defence, waving the flag for freedom of speech.

But then she was just a woman, employed by the BBC to host their flagship radio programme on a broad range of issues affecting women. Nothing important like football.

Good point and very depressing

There’s no need for you attempt to turn this into a feminist thing. It’s a unique situation and it just is what it is.

It’s more important to consider how different it would have been if GL’s comments had taken the opposite stance than it is to consider how different it would have been if he were a woman.

I actually agree with this.

I think if she'd said "we are legally obliged to point out that friends have said it's just one time" and that isn't an opinion on the matter as a whole" it would have been different from how it came across.

Instead it came across as minimising.

However OP I do think you have a point in what you've said. Everyone should have a platform for free speech and I don't always feel this is equal. Whether it's to do with sex or popularity I still have yet to decide.

It's not unique, and whoosh goes the point over your head. It's nothing about the sex of the poster. It's all about the supposed moral purity of the people supporting him.

And I will consider whichever viewpoint I wish, thank you. You seem quite proscriptive, which is ironic here.

I hear you.

Same shit though. Tories shutting down criticism of their policies. They were successful with Jenni. Not so with Gary and Lisa Townsend had to go through an investigation.

I agree with you OP. And it's depressing.

Ah OK, so those with conservative values who are out there protesting against a woman's right to chose what happens with her body aren't trying to shut down debate?

Are those who make death and rape threats towards Greta Thunberg or those who threatened to "skin 11 year old Francisco Manzanares alive" for speaking out about environmental issues, simply disagreeing with them?

Are the 1700 environmental activists who have been murdered over the last decade able to speak and express their views?

How can you compare it though? I'd understand if Gary Lineker had talked about women's sex-based rights being under threat and been met with much applause yet JK was hounded for it (not cancelled because I struggle to wonder how you can actually cancel a billionaire), but that's not what happened.

It seems that many many people are only happy with free speech when said speech aligns with their own views.

freedom of speech is allowing everyone to state their views regardless of what those are. With very few exceptions (real incitement to crime, for example), there would be no cancellations if we truly had freedom of speech.

this means allowing people you vehemently disagree with to voice their thoughts just as freely as you voice yours. And for a lot of people, that’s a leap they just can’t take.

Are you clumsily trying to say that it's left wing woke types trying to shut women down but not GL ?
From what I've read on MN there's a lot of shutting down on both sides. Be it left/right, remainer/leaver, wc/mc, GC or not.
If you have an opinion that even only slightly diverges from GC purity over on the Fwr board you are roundly pounced upon as a supporter of TRAs and child mutilation, labour or tory you're either a loony lefty or a heartless bastard.
Really cannot win and the polarisation and toxic hyperbole is getting worse.
Back in the day when I joined (2003) it was broadly centrist, maybe slightly left leaning, not anymore.

Eh? What are you referring to? I agree with his freedom of speech. I'm not sure I agree with his points, but that's beside the point. I don't agree with her points. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact she is a woman.

The problem is too many times the freedom of speech is used as an excuse for hate speech.

Excellent post 👏

It's all just polarising society even further. We either have free speech or we don't. You can't have free speech.. except. That's not free speech. And free speech doesn't mean your employer can't sack you for bring the company into disrepute. Or that you can't be sued for libel or slander.

Totally agree. Boris Johnson was well known to be dishonest and incompetent with ludicrous policies but the markets didn’t panic until a woman turned up as leader. Then bankers got so freaked out they crashed the pound.

@GoBackToTheLibraryWhereYouBelong as people have said countless times he
was comparing the rhetoric used by Bravermann and the tories to that of the Nazis in the 30s not their actions.
What does the money allegedly owed by GL to the HMRC have to do with anything ?
That is not the issue.
The level of debate on here is so tedious. My enemies enemy is my friend 🙄

I don't agree with what Gary Lineker said and am not entirely sure of whether he broke the contract/agreement he had with the BBC, now that it has been decided he is entitled to make comment I hope the same right is afforded to all those who are free lance workers who appear on the BBC. There has to be consistency.

To be honest, I haven’t seen many on the left arguing in support of Gary Lineker from a ‘free speech’ perspective, save for when in debate with those on the right. The arguments on the left have largely centred around how Lineker appeared to have been singled out by a Tory-led BBC who have been quite happy to allow their presenters to criticize Labour on social media and in newspapers, or for Lineker himself to speak out on issues provided that he wasn’t critical of the UK government.

It generally those on the right who, particularly in recent years, have made free-speech, anti cancel-culture based arguments. I often find those people to suddenly be in support of ‘cancelling’ when it relates to left-wing statements or persons, so kudos to those on the right who were consistent with their principles as applied to Lineker.

Most of those closest to me agree with what GL said and also support JKR & Kathleen Stock. There are lots of left wing gender critical women. JKR herself is.

In general I'm sick of non politicians sticking their oar into stuff that doesn't concern them. It's all very easy for Lineker to say the government are wrong for trying to stop illegal immigration. He doesn't have to back it up with any kind of alternative plan and make it all work.

He wasn't tweeting about immigration. He was tweeting about language. Oh, and seeking refuge is not illegal, nor is it, strictly speaking, immigration.

...and should Zelenskyy have stuck to stand up comedy and not 'stuck his oar in' politics?

So unless a citizen is a politician they shouldn’t express their opinion on proposed legislation and the language used to promote it? Nah, strongly disagree.