To not donate because I dislike voluntourism?

[notstevienicks]

I was in a charity shop today, passing the time before an appointment. I was in there maybe 10 mins. I arrived at the start of a speakerphone phone conversation between 2 women working there and another woman on the other end. They were talking about an upcoming trip and the itinerary etc. I was idly listening as I browsed and assumed they were planning a holiday but then the shop worker mentioned Uganda and I made the connection between that and the charity shop itself. It’s not a chain, but an independent Christian shop whose aim is to raise money for vulnerable single pregnant women in Uganda (including delivering health education to schools and churches in the country) according to their website.

I left the shop and noticed a sign in the window asking for donations towards the repair of a damaged water well and got out my purse to go back in and donate but then stopped myself. I’m already about voluntourism/ white saviourism and had just heard these women (at least 3 of them, maybe more are going on this trip I have no idea) talking about getting a good deal on their £2000 flights.

In their defence, they did chat about getting the cheapest flights possible even if it meant long layovers etc, plus they were talking about their garages full of donated items that would be shipped to Uganda (I have no idea what specifically) but I can’t help thinking about the fact that the 3 of them (at least) are taking £6000 (at least) out of the donations to travel to Uganda. Perhaps they’re good value and the work they do is worth it. Maybe they bring skills and knowledge that local people don’t have and therefore are invaluable. But I hate this “my 18 year old is going to Africa to build schools for 6 months” thing because they quite often do a shit job, take jobs away from local workers and it’s generally a huge waste of money that could be better spent directly helping local people. This explains my concerns well: afropunk.com/2018/06/white-savior-your-volunteer-trip-to-africa-was-more-beneficial-to-you-than-to-africa/?amp=1

Considering these women were of retirement age (and therefore not on a fun but meaningless pre uni gap year) and have been to Uganda many times before (according to my googling), AIBU to have put my purse away because I got annoyed by the thought of my measly £5 getting swallowed up by travel costs?

many times

How do you know they weren't paying for their own flights and using the luggage allowance to bring the donations. £2000 seems about right for 3 people plus extra luggage. I had the option to go to Tanzania, unfortunately covid restrictions meant it never happened but it was to teach administrative and computer skills for a month at the project we funded from the uk. As part of it I was to audit the accounts to ensure that the money was being correctly spent - my employer was funding the flights via an international development ministry grant.

When I left school (1970s) the only gap year job I knew about was with VSO.

I see now that their volunteers need to have a degree in a related field and at least three years experience.

No I’m inclined to agree with you. Environmentally it’s a bit of a nightmare and I think people fundraising for their own trips is a bit cheeky.

I can't abide that sort of thing! It niggles me when people sign up for trips or events that are the sort of thing that they usually enjoy (eg a keen cyclist doing a cycling "challenge" in the Himalayas, a keen hiker climbing Kilimanjaro etc) and expect others to pay for it by sponsoring them. If they want to go cycling in the Himalayas or climbing up mountains then just go and do it!

This is just a really bizarre point of view

Where is this rubbish coming from about no written languages? And as for the wheel, maybe you should look into some genuine research of into its origin and use, you will find it use spread among people who lived on terrain where wheels could be used. This did not include deserts, or this did not include jungles.

Hence some cultures developed more wheeled means of conveyance, and others, more small water craft, for example.

I am more deeply shocked by this ignorant racism than by anything else I have ever seen on Mumsnet

I suppose this is what is meant by "White saviour" complex.

Historical facts aren’t “racist”

weotten language did not exist in Sub Saharan Africa before Europeans. There were some protolanguages (pictograms) but nothing which approaches would linguists would call written language

There was also essentially zero technology. They hadn’t invented the wheel, but also none of the other basic technological advancements which were common in Egypt/Greece/etc as early as 1000BC.

Technology transfer from white people advanced Africa probabky around 5000-10000 years almost overnight. It’s literally the reason why Africa has electricity, medicine, etc today and why average life expectancy has increased by almost 30 years in the last century.

Just off the top of my head, Mali, Ethiopia, Yoruba and Zanzibar had thriving pre-medieval empires trading with the Roman, Egyptian and later Arabic worlds, at a time when we were living in mud huts in the UK.

I’m also not sure when you imagine Europeans first started directly trading with African empires, but there was steady trade in both directions from about the 8th century, so I don’t really understand why you have picked post-Renaissance Europe as a particular comparison point. Portugal, Spain, Holland and the Ottomans had thriving colonial empires long before 1600.

I think you are the one who could do with picking up a history book, or at least visiting a museum.

Would you describe Coptic as a written language?

Without sub-Saharan Africa, none of us would exist. Not one. Every single bit of tech, language, art and culture starts there. Every gene that made us, started there.

In some people's cases I wish they hadn't bothered but there we are.

This seems an exceptionally inefficient way of running a charity.

Your grasp of history seems to be lacking some serious knowledge.

White Europeans have destroyed soo much in terms of culture and civilizations.
And at present they try and make themselves feel better by voluntee tourism ...

YANBU.

I have a few direct debit donations each month that I'm considering ending now. I donate to a few big organisations and one local small one. I'm thinking of just changing it all to the local one.

I can't stand knowing there are directors on £100k+ in these organisations as well as all of the on-costs. My donations are literally the tiniest drop in the biggest oceans and I don't think it's at all effective. Whereas I know our local hospice run on a shoe string to deliver such a meaningful service.

It depends on the charity to be fair. The organisation that I'm a trustee of obviously needs a massive amount of funding to pay our staff to do their work. That funding mainly comes from corporate funders or family trusts. But on a day to day level, the people we support need items that we keep in stock, and if people buy some of those items for us, it's a big help.

The CEO of your hospice charity will be on a salary consummate with the high level of skills and experience that they need to have to manage what will be a huge budget (I just looked up my local hospice's income and it's £14 million a year) to manage safeguarding, to employ a large number of people, to raise the funds to keep it in existence and to manage such a sensitive project.

Non profits cannot run on well meaning volunteers. They are quite rightly, held to account, often now so than private commercial companies. It's stunningly naive to think that they can get away with not paying the highly skilled people they need.

My grandparents sponsored and raised money for a S.African school (they lived there for many years and brought their family up there) in one of the townships.
All money raised here went to the school, they paid for their visits themselves.

@EmmaDilemma5 I've just looked up the salary of our hospice's CEO (and of course charities have to be transparent about such things in a way that commercial companies do not). It's £90,000. So not far off the £100k that you consider entirely unreasonable for a charity director.

I definitely see your point and I don’t donate to charity for the same reason. I’d sooner give clothing ect.. to people travelling.

However, I would say to those saying about giving the money to people directly in the countries would be better. Not necessarily, my husband is Kenyan and most of the African countries are incredibly corrupt and I would still be concerned where money is going. I know plenty of people who have been good enough to try this but they’ve been conned.

Fair enough

I've recently starting donating to givedirectly. Seems like a good idea, the people who are struggling know what they need and can use the money most well. There's also (what seems to be to me) a very clear breakdown of how all donations get used on their website.
donate.givedirectly.org

CEO at £90k is reasonable. A CEO isn't the same as a director.

I have lots of family who work in the charity sector. Two are directors earnings £75k+, another is on £110k and she reports into the CEO and is one of a team of senior directors, so isn't the only person on that salary, then who knows how much the CEO earns.

Charities become too big where the economies of scale no longer justify the adminstration costs. That is only my opinion. If you are ok donating to charities with those kind of salaries, that's fine.

And with all due respect, I'm not stupid, I do know what being senior in an organisation entails.

But I also realise that even senior directors and CEOs aren't always worth these salaries. Yes, they hold ultimate responsibility, but they often aren't actually experts in their field. One of the directors I mentioned is CIO and she hasn't got expertise in any of the technologies they use. She knows how to manage people, project manage (to an extent and with support) and she's a great communicator, but she heavily relies on her deligates and other dedicated teams within the organisation to do her job.

CEOs and directors aren't often subject experts or particularly valuable in terms of their knowledgeable. They are often somewhere at the right place and time to get promotions and experience that then lend themselves to the next rung. They are also often very confident, privileged people who have high expectations on themselves.

From my experience, they often aren't worth their salaries, especially when the funding comes from the everyday person who is just trying to help the cause.

If the women weren't white would you have felt differently?