To ask for help - Autistic DS

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Ds (13) is Autistic and has a lot of anxiety, particularly around school. I understand he has a lot of struggles due to this but he seems to take out all his frustration on his 2 siblings but mostly ds2 (10). They've never had a close relationship but recently he can't tolerate even being him near him. Anything ds2 says he has to reply with sarcasm or tells him to shut up. He says he hates him and hates living with him. He has sensory issues and hates that ds2 sings and talks loudly. I've bought him noise cancelling headphones but refuses to wear them.

Generally he's a well behaved and gentle boy but recently (teenage hormones!) he's become so moody, rude and stubborn with me too. I can deal with it (mostly) but I absolutely can't stand how he treats ds2 and the deteriorating affect it's having on the rest of us. It's led to ds2 getting angry very easily and crying multiple times a day. This then leads to DH (also Autistic) shouting and punishing ds1 which doesn't help the situation. Oh and DH has been having a go at me recently that I spoil ds1 and suggesting that I'm too soft on him and I let him get away with things. Ffs. I can't deal with any of them at the moment. But I know if we can somehow improve the relationship between both brothers then it won't escalate with everyone frustrated with each other. Anyone else in a similar situaton? Any helpful ideas?

There is a huge age gap between my DS1 and DS2 1 being Autistic 2 NT. They dont interact that much but DS2 clearly gets on DS1 nerves and can even be purposely irritating. If he does this I tell him off. Dont wind your brother up you know his triggers and your doing it on purpose. If it's ever DS1 that's being unreasonable so DS2 just existing is annoying him. Everyday stuff like talking laughing being a little bit loud running ect then I pull DS1 up on it. You want quiet time go to your room or go for a walk. Sit outside and I will make sure your left alone for a while that sort of stuff. If your DS1 is refusing to learn strategies to cope with everyday noise and interactions that wont help him in the long run.

I keep mine separate as much as possible - luckily DS1 is with his Dad half the week and I think he’ll probably want to move him with him when he leaves school.

I am autistic and work in this field so I have a few suggestions for you to consider but feel free to take or leave them as I know every autistic person is different:

• Does he have his own room/private space? If not, is this something you can implement and ensure everyone respects? For example, even with having my own room if people were talking to me through the door or coming in I’d still feel very stressed.
• Are you and your husband able to sit and come to a consensus of how you should deal with this? I imagine that the way your husband is responding with shouting etc may feel very unjust to your son and therefore, even if your husband has a point, he may discount what he’s saying.
• Does your younger son understand why DS1 feels the way he does? He may already be the most understanding brother you could wish for and I’m certainly not advocating your autistic son to rule the roost as it is BOTH their homes but could some more understanding on his part move it down to a tolerable level for DS1?
• I use the Calmer ear bud things from Flare Audio and they are good at moving noise to a more tolerable level but I can still hold a conversation. I also have Loop Ear Buds and they are good for louder noises when you don’t need to maintain a conversation. I would really recommend trying them out! Or perhaps planting the seed for your son to consider and come around to in his own time.
• Could you discuss some anger management/coping strategies with DS1? For example, how could he communicate how is feeling politely and effectively? Could he take himself outside for some fresh air? Could he take himself to his room or use his ear defenders? I think having a plan of action he has agreed on (and given his input for) could enable him to more easily put this into practice in the moment. He may need prompting from you to remember it when he is upset but you can work towards him actioning it fully independently. Again, your husband would need to be on board to support!
• See if both boys would like some 1:1 time with you and/or your husband. Even just a walk and talk might help (speaking of.. I find doing an activity while talking really helps the kids open up!)

I would stress: his autism is an explanation but not an excuse for his behaviour and you are quite right to point out he can’t treat people poorly. Saying that, I find it so frustrating how CAMHS bump kids with autism off their service… it would be all well and good if there was a specialist service for them but there usually isn’t! My advice on that front and with school is to be the annoying parent. In my experience, the kids who get the most support have the parents who kept on asking and following up with the professionals. If you can afford it, I would also really recommend counselling with a counsellor who actually understands autism (I find fellow ND counsellors the best!)

I wish you all the best!

I empathise, my children are younger so it's hard in different ways but I can imagine what it might be like as they get older. DC1 (suspected ASD and/or ADHD, not yet diagnosed) and DC2 wind each other up a lot and DH loses his temper sometimes

Parenting a child with ASD is a challenge and always will be but IMO it is a lot more bearable if the other parent is on the same page or if not exactly on the same page, working with you and not against you. So my advice is to see if there is an ASD-focused parenting course that you can both attend. Consider some couple's therapy first to discuss his behaviour and try to find ways of working together to manage it better.

I think you need to try being a bit firmer with DC1 about either headphones/ear plugs (maybe trying out different types to find the most comfortable ones?) or going to his bedroom for some peace and quiet.

Have you spoken to SENDIASS? I wonder if they could help you negotiate with the SENDCO to put some things in place at school for him that mean he is a bit less dysregulated and exhausted afterwards, and better able to cope with siblings at home.

Excellent advice!

PS Another suggestion, if you could afford it, I recommend private occupational therapy with an OT specialising in autism and sensory challenges, that could help and give him some practical strategies for regulating and calming himself.

how CAMHS bump kids with autism off their service… it would be all well and good if there was a specialist service for them but there usually isn’t! My advice on that front and with school is to be the annoying parent. In my experience, the kids who get the most support have the parents who kept on asking and following up with the professionals.

I came back to add this. There is such a huge demand for CAMHS services, and it's often the squeakiest wheels that get the oil. I was always making a fuss. And it was only by making an absolute pest of myself that DD got into a Specialist Teaching Facility.
If you want or need outside help you have little choice but to be persistent to the point of cheekiness. It's awful, but those who take their place quietly at the back of the queue will have a very long wait.

Thank you, reading through the posts and lots of helpful suggestions. Many of which I have tried - clearly explaining it's not acceptable behaviour, trying to give him a safe space to retreat etc but it's always good to review how we do things and keep trying.

Sorry I can't tag as I mentioned earlier but I'll try and answer some of the questions. Ds1 is struggling with school and a master masker. But he wants to go and has friends although none of them are aware of his diagnosis (his choice). He's diagnosis is quite recent and he's not fully come to terms with it. I feel he's ashamed in a way and hates being different. His friendships sound rather superficial as he doesn't want to see them outside of school or likes talking about them much. But he says he's happy with how things are socially. He is very close to a cousin his age however, so gets that social interaction outside of school. Academically hes very capable and teachers are happy with his progress. But when his anxiety is heightened his executive functioning skills go to pot and he struggles with basic things so we need to have a meeting about that.

At home he spends a lot of time destressing by gaming or watching YouTube on his phone and indulging in his special interest. We make sure he gets time daily to do that.

Fridaytwattery I'm actually doing an online course on social stories tomorrow morning so that should be interesting! It was recommended by SALT.

A poster asked about DC3. He is a toddler and ds1 absolutely adores him, well until very recently. Now he mostly ignores him but dislikes the fact ds2 and ds3 get on well.
With regards to ds2 I do have alot of sympathy as he has to endure alot. And we talk about feelings etc. He tells me ds1 has always been a bit of a bully and controlling. We try to give him as much one to one time and to do things he enjoys and also have his time on the PS5. He enjoys going to his hobbies (swimming, football, choir) but really enjoys being at home, in fact they both like to spend their spare time in the living room or kitchen in my presence when home. And that's when the arguments start!

Your second kid is hurting your first kid (probably not intentionally but unwanted noise causes actual physical pain. Why are you letting that happen? (Just read any thread on misophonia in adults) He's been in school all day being tortured by noise, lights, people, lots of bloody people, behaving, smells, (schools stink) listening to teachers while trying to tune out the clock ticking, pens scratching on paper, the pe lesson outside, next-door class, etc.

He needs silence and alone time to decompress as part of his disability. Stop DC two hurting him and you will see an improvement in family dynamics.

Arrange it so it is win win for both kids.

Maybe the headphones hurt too. Try different pair or put them on h.

Have a quiet hour where everyone is quiet for an hour when ds1 gets home. Ds 2 can watch something with headphones or go out to do something with a parent.

Do regular calming activities with Ds 1 too. H needs to do them too. He's probably shouting as getting sensory overload too.

Are you NT? Is Ds 2. If so you take him out and the aspies can stay at home in glorious silence.

Once things are calmer you can deal with ds1 verbal responses and teach him how to recognise overload, how to deal with it and appropriate words. While they are wrong at the moment, you aren't going to fix them until he is xal and emotionally regulated enough.

You can't parent like NT parents. You've got to analyze the situation and prevent sensory overload. Sod NT expectations of the ideal family and do things differently. (Eat separately for example, if it's a sensory nightmare for autistics, and emotional nightmare for the neurotypicals ) you have a disabled kid and you have to meet his needs differently.

Screen time can be calming(if the right sort)

Try not be fixed on society's ideal of how families should behave. Your family isn't a TV commercial

Oh the 'shut up' thing. Yes we have been struggling a lot with this over the last 1-2 years. DS1 constantly telling DP and DS2 to shut up. Oddly, despite me being the one that gives most of the orders around here(!), I don't get told to shut up at all.

I started to suspect it was a dominance/sibling rivalry thing, because it started when DP changed from shift work to suddenly being at home more, and when DS2 started school and was more grown up instead of being the toddler in the buggy all the time.

To be fair, DS1 does put up with a lot from his younger sibling who has a tendency to tease, but still, the younger one gets a lot of flak just for being in the same room and their squabbling really does wear me down. It's also hard to hear siblings say they hate each other and don't want to live together. And then 5 minutes later they are giggling about farts or something.

Don't have much to add in terms of strategies except make sure they have equal time away in their own space, make sure your DS1 doesn't have to fight for your attention and has time to talk and get his ideas across (I suspect my DS1 gets anxious about being talked over because he's not as articulate as his younger sibling), and try and make time out for you to rest and recooperate. It is hard.

Oh bloody hell... You will have to have a mumrota. Taking it in turns!. Good luck with that!

Try to think of ds1 differently.

Ds two experiences it as controlling and no it shouldn't happen but also try to see ds 1 as an undiagnosed disabled child who has been struggling to fit into NT expectations (cos, well, you didn't know) trying to control his environment as it is painful/ stressful

Also remember that he may be 2/3 chronological age emotionally.

Thank you for your post invisibleeye lots of excellent suggestions there. He does have his own room but doesn't spend as much time in there as he could. The ps5 is downstairs in the sitting room as it's used by the older boys and occasionally DH (although ds1 plays on it majority of the time). He doesn't mind it usually as he has his headphones on.

DH can be quite difficult to discuss this issue with if I'm being entirely honest. He struggles to see things from my perspective and the support Ds1 needs. He feels Ds1 should snap out of it and questions why he does certain things like why he keeps sniffing. Its a tic. (He has anxiety issues himself!) We don't agree on a lot of things but I know he loves him dearly and vice versa and they do have a good relationship when they're both in the mood to get on.

Currently we can't afford OT but I will look into it. He had some counselling last year after the camhs rejection and were signposted to a smaller organisation. We were offered talking therapy which was a massive flop as he isn't much of a talker and all 8 sesions were pretty much spent in silence and he hated every second of it. He said he now hates going to any professional about his autism.

I also have a 13yr old autistic son …. He loves his own company and peace and quiet .

I think it’s unfair that you’re punishing your son because his younger brother is annoying him - he can’t help being overloaded .

i would suggest leaving him be a lot more . Let him have his dinner in his room if he wants and don’t force him to do ‘family stuff’ if it’s just going to be too much for him . It sounds quite chaotic at home and he will need time out from that .

No ds1 isn't under camhs. After his diagnosis they didn't want to know. A referral was made last year by the GP when his anxiety was out of control and he was school avoidant but camhs declined it because they told us anxiety is a part of ASD and that was that.

Just wanted to sympathise on how infuriating this is. DS is 9, doesn't even have the ASD diagnosis yet but has been refused help for the anxiety that has led to him not attending school since June. Surely it's the effect that the anxiety is having on his life that's important?

Blackeyedsusan, we have never stopped ds1 from retreating to his room. That option is always there. He eats on a separate table to the rest of us (with his back to ds2 as he hates seeing him eat), that's also his choice. But ds2 finds it funny and not remotely offensive. Ds1 also laughs about it. We try to keep things lighthearted in the house and I laugh a lot even if I'm overwhelmed with being pulled in so many directions and want to scream! I always try to accommodate ds1 due to his special needs without ds2 feeling left out but that's the issue DH has with me. Why I put ds1's needs above everyone else. As an Autistic I feel he should have a better understanding of ds1 and his needs but he doesn't. There's not much empathy.

Maybe your ds1 laughs because he knows that is what your response is/would be .
Maybe he doesn’t want to laugh at all and wants to escape or cry instead .
To me it sounds like you actually put your ds2 needs above your autistic sons needs . Not the other way round .

It's very infuriating I agree. During his burnout DS's anxiety was so bad that he couldn't attend school. He was unable to wash, eat, or even sleep properly. When he did eventually fall asleep his legs were jerking and he was having nightmares. He wanted to sleep with me so he was in my bed for 2 whole months. It took a long time for him to recover, no thanks to camhs.

Rule in my house is if you are choosing to be in the living room/kitchen/common areas, then you accept there will be normal levels of noise, conversation etc and that your sibling may be there. I don’t allow DC2 to deliberately wind up DC1, but I’m not going to tell them off for talking, breathing, laughing etc. If DC1 wants silence I send him to his room or other quiet areas. I will not allow him to dictate who is and isn’t allowed in the kitchen!

The other side of that though is I make time, daily, to spend time with DC1 in a quiet space and without DC2 (usually once DC2 is in bed). Either talking or just hanging out doing our own quiet things in the same space. And DH does the same. So DC1 is not forced to choose between noise and getting time with his parents.

I also bought a second console, because it was just a source of too many arguments and I wanted DC1 to be able to game without having to be in the living room with DC2.

There is no perfect answer, but all I can do is try to balance everyone’s needs as best I can.

Our rather drastic solution was to move house to a 3 storey house so one has a basement bedroom and one a top floor bedroom!

Since ds went to uni, he has realized what thoughtless, selfish and noisy housemates are actually like. He's much more tolerant at home now.

I don't know, DH lives with me and he would certainly disagree with you. It's been an issue we've argued on. I guess I can't really win either way.

Sounds like an ideal solution! Funnily when the boys played roblox Ds2 had a room in ds1's house and he told me in real life when they're older he can live with him. So I know deep down he does care about him but it's a tricky age with so much going on and his autism and changes. I really hope they can overcome it and become friends.