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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

2 Free GCSE choices only

93 replies

Bunce1 · 07/03/2023 13:26

School is in special measures and failing in every aspect. We have got a MAT in now and things are looking up.

However the school has now set the GCSES as follows
COMPULSORY
Eng language
Eng Literature
Maths
Science (double or triple. But no extra time on timetable for triple)

MUST BE ONE FROM
Geog
MFL
History

FREE CHOICE OF 2 from
all the usuals like art, PE studies, food DT, drama, music and so on. And then also Psychology, some BTECs, business and a media GCSE

So that’s 8, and not the more common 9 so lots of parents asked and they said oh yeah the extra GCSE is COMPULSORY and it’s RE.

AIBU to think that there should be 3 free choices. Totally free and not RE. I am a RE specialist and did it at Uni so I see the value in the subject but I think more broadly the push back from the parents and kids will be huge and really the children should have more choice at this age not leSs!

AIBU- RE is fine.
YANBU- 3 totally free choices is better.

OP posts:
scaredysquiggle · 07/03/2023 13:30

My child's school is similar but possibly a bit worse. The compulsory ones that you name and compulsory RE. Then one language - nothing but languages in that block and then 2 others.

Plumbear2 · 07/03/2023 13:32

My kids school have compulsory English,maths, combined or triple science
Then they have to choose a language and have to choose between history or geography. They then get 2 free options. Their school is one of the highest achieving in the area (state) . So no it's not unusual.

BellaJuno · 07/03/2023 13:33

Guided choice is typical at my local secondary - they have to pick one of 2 modern languages, either history or geography then 2 free choices.

Justmeandthedog1 · 07/03/2023 13:34

I’d have thought RE would be compulsory in a religious / church school but not in a bog standard secondary. And why religion? Why not a language or a skill based subject? I’d have thought cooking, DIY and some woodwork would be more useful than religious studies.

IggyAce · 07/03/2023 13:34

RE is compulsory at my dcs school and my dc due to pathway only got two choices.

TeenDivided · 07/03/2023 13:34

It's not unusual. RE has o be taught at KS4, so schools think might as well get a GCSE in it. Is the RE full course or short course?

The options you describe are pretty common.

Hankunamatata · 07/03/2023 13:36

Is it a religious school?

GiltEdges · 07/03/2023 13:36

Sounds exactly the same as the choices I had at GCSE, almost 20 years ago. Not sure why it's a big issue 🤷‍♀️

evemillbank · 07/03/2023 13:37

@GiltEdges same here!

donttellmehesalive · 07/03/2023 13:37

The same in all three of our local secondary schools.

SimplySipping · 07/03/2023 13:39

Both. More choices would be better but I don't think this sort of selection is unusual.

RS as a "rounding up" of compulsory RE, and limiting number of GCSEs, both seem sensible choices for a struggling school trying to get the best grades for its students.

Vermin · 07/03/2023 13:40

There’s an ofsted special measures school near me and they make the kids do RE because it started life as a religious school (not sure whether it’s been taken over by secular actual educators rather than religious segregationist amateurs). They do very well in their RE (but not much else)

PeekAtYou · 07/03/2023 13:41

8 gcses are enough for top unis.

Do they offer further maths or statistics for top set maths ?

lanthanum · 07/03/2023 13:42

Compulsory RE is usually either because it's a church school, or because it is compulsory to teach RE at KS4. A lot of schools skate round the compulsory KS4 RE by doing it on collapsed timetable days, or as part of a rotation with PSHE, but for those who timetable it, they think they might as well make those lessons count towards a GCSE, and it may make the kids take it more seriously too.

It's possible, in special measures, that there may be other factors at play. If the RE department is good, they might be playing to their strengths. It might also have timetabling advantages, particularly if the school is small. (I taught in a four-form entry where there were only three English teachers and three maths teachers, so you could only set across the whole year group if the same sets were used for another subject. RE in English sets might work for that.

Some schools mandate both a language and a humanity, so only two free choices is not unusual.

WooWooWinnie · 07/03/2023 13:42

GiltEdges · 07/03/2023 13:36

Sounds exactly the same as the choices I had at GCSE, almost 20 years ago. Not sure why it's a big issue 🤷‍♀️

Same!
We did English x2, Maths, Science x2, RE, a MFL, a technology (food, textiles, graphics, DT I think) and then a choice of two out of everything else (history, geography, art, drama, music, second language, IT, business or a few BTEC options). I think it’s always been like this?

FrodisCapering · 07/03/2023 13:43

I am an RE specialist too. I taught for years, I am a senior team leader for an exam board and I now work in a niche specialist role for my main job.

I obviously think it's a great subject but I totally agree that it shouldn't be foisted on students. It can make for an unhappy experience for the kids and also the poor teachers.

Unfortunately I can't see things changing until the government removes the requirement for it to be studied by all, whether or not they are examined in it. I wish they could get rid of "acts of worship of a broadly Christian nature" and faith schools too.

UnbeatenMum · 07/03/2023 13:45

DD1 gets the same compulsory subjects. Then MFL is compulsory for most students and a choice of humanity (RE, History or Geography). Then two totally free choices.

Chickenly · 07/03/2023 13:45

When I was at school we had 2 or 3 free choices depending on academic ability. Everyone did maths, top sets did statistics too with no additional time. Everyone did double English. Everyone did double science, top set did triple with no extra time. Everyone did French. Then you had to choose between all the rest and fill your 2/3 options. You could then take art/drama/music/additional languages after school or at lunch time.

At DH’s school, he had to do maths, double English and at least double science (top set did triple in the same time). Then they had to choose one language, one humanity, one D&T and one art. They then did compulsory half-course PE, IT and RE.

These were both Ofsted Outstanding schools.

Different schools do things differently. As a teacher, I’ve seen schools be far more prescriptive than what you’ve described. In honestly, it’ll be determined by things like how many teachers they can get. Would you rather (for example) have your child who’d rather study Spanish than French studying French with a French teacher or studying Spanish with no Spanish teacher?

LaRitournelle · 07/03/2023 13:45

GiltEdges · 07/03/2023 13:36

Sounds exactly the same as the choices I had at GCSE, almost 20 years ago. Not sure why it's a big issue 🤷‍♀️

Yes same as me 10 years ago...

We did English x2, Maths, Science x2, RE and an MFL, then had to choose history or geography plus two options from Triple science, PE, one of the techs or Art.

titchy · 07/03/2023 13:46

RE is often compulsory as schools have to have some sort of RE and PSHE and what is taught has quite a big overlap with the RE syllabus. For bright kids it's also pretty easy, for less academic there is a half GCSE option.

Two free choices is also quite normal. There's always a big song and dance about options, but in reality once the core subjects have been chosen there is very little choice - you actually have three if you include the choice between H/G/MFL...

mn29 · 07/03/2023 13:50

My children's school is the same - compulsory RE GCSE. It really annoys me that it's compulsory - I'm guessing it's because they are required to have at least some hours on the timetable so think they may as well make it more worth their while. But to me it means kids are missing out on another subject they'd prefer. For triple science there is an extra lesson once a week after school at ours.

Original poster
Bunce1 · 07/03/2023 13:51

Really interesting responses and you have made me calm down a bit so thank you!

I am hearted to hear that many schools do the same- I think it’s just a big change for us as a school community but of course that needed to happen. School was a violent shit show so I am very relieved at the MAT coming in.

I thought- why not have a free choice or if it was a rounding up of subjects why not PE? Anyway I’m sure all will be come clear at the parents meeting next week.

OP posts:
Tombero · 07/03/2023 13:52

I’m surprised they’re not having to pick a language and a humanities subject. The RE seems a bit odd too.

LittleOwl153 · 07/03/2023 13:52

Its interesting they are throwing out their Ebacc numbers with that set up as unless history/geoegraphy/MFL are options to choose in addition to their 1 choice initally none of the kids will hit ebbac - which government expects 90% of kids to do... so that won't do their ofsted chances much good?!

Ebacc requires English, maths, science, history or geography AND mfl I believe. Which can't be achieved on that set up.

2 x English
Maths
2 or 3 x science
History or Geography
MFL
And two choices is fairly usual.

Original poster
Bunce1 · 07/03/2023 13:52

And no we are not a religious school or ever have been historically.

OP posts:
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