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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To expect the school to complete the syllabus

60 replies

user1456882310 · 07/03/2023 07:33

Dds School haven't managed to cover half the Physics GCSE topics and have whole chapters left to do in Chemistry and Biology. School recognise its"not ideal" but have no contingency other than to cram lessons together and pick areas the kids just do themselves.
Dd very worried as these are her chosen A levels.
Advice pls

OP posts:
Frlrlrubert · 07/03/2023 17:05

Redbone · 07/03/2023 12:52

To be honest, the school are not at fault if they had not completed all of the specifications before the mocks at Christmas. I have never taught at a school yet where this has been done. Furthermore, it it very difficult to cover every little detail.
I had exactly the same issue with one of my son’s school several years ago. Several parents complained and extra lessons were given, albeit only to the boys of the parents who had complained!

For science Paper 1 is the first half of the spec. If they couldn't do a paper 1 as a mock they'd covered less than half the spec. That's not normal by December of Year 11.

Back when we were 'allowed' to start in Year 9 we'd finished the whole spec by January.

I've been in schools where how many hours in timetable a subject is allocated is a wrangle between the HoD and the Head. Sometimes science just doesn't get enough. But, OP saying they are further on in Biology and Chemistry than Physics suggests teacher shortage/illness.

Maths teacher could absolutely be directed to teach Physics (I've known it happen the opposite way a few times). Might not be the best at it but better than nothing at all.

redskylight · 07/03/2023 17:13

For science Paper 1 is the first half of the spec. If they couldn't do a paper 1 as a mock they'd covered less than half the spec. That's not normal by December of Year 11.

Only if they study the modules in the same order as the specification ... Not being able to complete a paper only means they have at least 2 modules left.

321gogogo · 07/03/2023 17:16

No, you are not being unreasonable. We have similar here in 1 subject, as the teacher has been off sick more than she's been in the last 2 years

Abraxan · 07/03/2023 17:26

321gogogo · 07/03/2023 17:16

No, you are not being unreasonable. We have similar here in 1 subject, as the teacher has been off sick more than she's been in the last 2 years

That may not be the teacher's fault though, unless you have reason to believe they are taking advantage.
Even with an absent teacher the lessons should be covered by supply/cover person and the lesson plans followed. Not ideal but better than just not doing anything.

Pottedpalm · 07/03/2023 17:29

As a maths teacher I would not be happy to be ‘directed’ to teach Science. It would mean
a lot of extra preparation of unfamiliar material, and even worse if the class were revising as they could be needing help with pretty much anything!

Pottedpalm · 07/03/2023 17:30

I would suggest paying for tutoring.

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 07/03/2023 17:33

MrsHamlet · 07/03/2023 16:45

The maths teacher will be teaching maths. It's not their job or their responsibility to deal with physics

Unless Things have drastically changed, all of mechanics is maths. I’m sure the maths teachers could cover that part.

Frlrlrubert · 07/03/2023 17:50

Pottedpalm · 07/03/2023 17:29

As a maths teacher I would not be happy to be ‘directed’ to teach Science. It would mean
a lot of extra preparation of unfamiliar material, and even worse if the class were revising as they could be needing help with pretty much anything!

True. I don't think the Science teachers 'directed' to teach maths at my previous school were too happy either, but in an 'oh shit they've not done half the physics spec' situation....

Fair point about some schools not doing the spec in order, I always forget that, I've always working in schools that have roughly followed the spec, precisely so they can use paper 1s as early mocks. But OP did say they'd done less than half for Physics.

Changechangechanging · 07/03/2023 18:00

They must have seen this coming as even at Christmas mocks couldn't cover a full paper one as hadn't done the topics

Not a science teacher but I rarely complete a spec before Easter. There is so much packed in, unfortunately.

It is highly unlikely that it has been planned this way - teacher illness, maternity leaves, supply staff shortages, poor pupil behaviour, timing of lessons (lessons regularly missed because of the unexpected - fire alarms, Queen’s funeral, internal drip-down days etc). can all have an impact on ability to get through things.

Approach the school carefully, OP. You have no idea what they have been dealing with. For everyone else, stop voting Tory.

ThrallsWife · 07/03/2023 18:04

The Biology syllabus is always far longer than both Chemistry and Physics, by sheer number of lessons - it has been this way since I started teaching. When schools were not under pressure to extend KS3 to a full 3 years instead of being allowed to allow us to cover the syllabus for GCSE properly after SATs in Y9 went we usually finished teaching by Christmas and revised thereafter - not always ideal either, partially as Y9 are not mature enough to understand some of the more complex Chemistry especially, but doable.

Now we're in a situation where the content has expanded under Gove, but schools have been told to spend less time on GCSE teaching - and don't forget that Y10 and 11 are not two full years; they are one year and 5 months. Then we have mock exams in all subjects (4 weeks of teaching lost), a few bank holidays and INSET days and we could easily have lost a whole half-term's worth of lessons, so are down to a year and 3 months. Then fit in mental health workshops, mock interviews, PSHE days, trips and we're suddenly down to barely more than a year in which we have to teach the content designed for two full years.

Oh, and there are no Science teachers - we have 3 current vacancies and zero applications.

fUNNYfACE36 · 07/03/2023 18:27

Of course covid has had a massive effect on STEM subjects where you are continually building on previous skills and knowledge.
I think the current Y13 cohort are possible the worst hit of any cohort.They missed 2 out of 5 GCSE terms ( the6th being exams). The government said they would water down GCSEs for them , but don't seem ti have thought through that most STEM students are playing catchup from the start of their A level course.

MrsHamlet · 07/03/2023 18:35

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 07/03/2023 17:33

Unless Things have drastically changed, all of mechanics is maths. I’m sure the maths teachers could cover that part.

They maybe could. But they have their own jobs to do

noblegiraffe · 07/03/2023 18:42

I'm not a science teacher but I have noticed discussions on edutwitter recently about the impossibility of teaching all of the science syllabus in the time given, particularly as Ofsted now insist on a 2 year KS4 only where schools had previously started it in KS3.

fUNNYfACE36 · 07/03/2023 19:08

noblegiraffe · 07/03/2023 18:42

I'm not a science teacher but I have noticed discussions on edutwitter recently about the impossibility of teaching all of the science syllabus in the time given, particularly as Ofsted now insist on a 2 year KS4 only where schools had previously started it in KS3.

Some schools.in this area most only ever did it over 2

fUNNYfACE36 · 07/03/2023 19:11

fUNNYfACE36 · 07/03/2023 19:08

Some schools.in this area most only ever did it over 2

Except biology which is such a big syllabus

fUNNYfACE36 · 07/03/2023 19:12

user1456882310 · 07/03/2023 10:54

Thankyou All,
Nimbostratus interesting points ,its a top set in a 'nice ' girls school and the same class finished maths at Christmas so I don't think its behaviour.
I think it's more the 'we've run out of class time 'so you need to do these whole topics( SB9 ) yourself,rather than the independent learning that bothers me.
Along with no opportunity for exam prep.
I am lucky in that I can support her and will get workbooks ect.
Catonthehat its edexcel board .
I have written to the head head rather than the head of science this morning.
We will see what can be done

I would expect top set maths to finish in year10!

Photosymphysis · 07/03/2023 19:29

Haven't RTFT, sorry. But came to say this:

Schools at the moment, Sept-Feb: "the learners must MASTER the content, it's all about MASTERY LEARNING. There's no point in moving on until ALL the learners have mastered the content"

Teachers: "but what about when we don't finish the content?"

Schools: "But they will have MASTERED the other content and so will do better in those parts"

Teachers: 🙄 Fine, whatever, you'll put me on capability if I don't comply.

Schools in March: "WHY HAVENT YOU FINISHED THE CONTENT?! You teachers are INEPT! YOU are letting the learners down by following our diktats under duress"

TL:DR - don't rush to blame the individual teacher. Times are a lot less bonkers than pre-pandemic, but there's a lot of wafty shite still circulating in the EduTwitter realm where the self-congratulatory 'leaders' hang out.

Photosymphysis · 07/03/2023 19:42

More specifically now having skimmed the thread:

• as far as I'm aware science specs haven't changed since 2015.
• it is perfectly possible to teach the whole lot in 2 years (or 1 year & 5 months, as noted by PP)
• I have also taught all 3 separate sciences in combined science time (2/3 of usual time allotted) in full, with careful management and planning (in a normal state school)
- however, not possible to do the above if teaching for "mastery"
• if it's an individual teacher problem this should have been noticed way back when their group weren't meeting some sensible milestones
• also current education shift is to everyone delivering the exact same content with the exact same resources. Sometimes even scripted. Yes, it's less planning but it negates the need for subject expertise. And so you can drop your spare maths PE teacher in to do it. (This is also why they're not increasing top pay scales in line with lower, because who needs subject/teaching expertise when everyone's reading off a script)

ThrallsWife · 07/03/2023 19:45

• as far as I'm aware science specs haven't changed since 2015.
• it is perfectly possible to teach the whole lot in 2 years

There were (minor, but still) spec changes in 2018.

No, on the latter, unless given sufficient curriculum time. 3h/ fortnight doesn't cut it.

Photosymphysis · 07/03/2023 19:51

No, you're right there, it does depend on the hours given.

5 hours per fortnight per subject works well enough. But (with an able and motivated group) I have done all 3 in 10 hours per fortnight (instead of 15). Couldn't do it with anything other than top set (normal non-selective truly comprehensive semi-rural state school top set) though.

I don't remember the tweaks in 2018 (I only remember the death by marking of 2018😩)

Rocketpants50 · 07/03/2023 19:59

We are the same currently all 3 sciences, geography and maths!! Yep not much then. School are massively trying to make it up, school on Saturday, in every day through half term. What gets me is I went up last year and complained, several times and told it was all OK blah blah, they were given exam papers on what they know to look like they were getting good results...only to find out now that they are massively behind. Old head has gone, we have maths tutors, daughter is just teaching herself one subject as refusing to go into class as teacher is so bad and just trying our best with online stuff.

It's not great but we will get there and we are just trying to ensure she gets enough points to move on.

Precipice · 07/03/2023 20:07

Nimbostratus100 · 07/03/2023 15:20

It is unlikely that the maths teacher will have the right skill set

Any maths teacher should have more skills and knowledge of physics than a 15 year old who hasn't covered the material and who'd otherwise have to learn it on their own.

Nimbostratus100 · 07/03/2023 20:20

Precipice · 07/03/2023 20:07

Any maths teacher should have more skills and knowledge of physics than a 15 year old who hasn't covered the material and who'd otherwise have to learn it on their own.

no, not likely at all. Possible, but not likely

MrsHamlet · 07/03/2023 20:21

Precipice · 07/03/2023 20:07

Any maths teacher should have more skills and knowledge of physics than a 15 year old who hasn't covered the material and who'd otherwise have to learn it on their own.

In my very recent experience of trying to support someone doing exactly this, it's really not that easy.

noblegiraffe · 07/03/2023 20:22

Like maths departments are overburdened with great maths teachers.