Paint mess, decorator says to chill out

[JediNinja]

NC as I disclosed town in a recent thread and my painters are a local business.

We have just installed a new kitchen and tiles, which we haven't used yet. The team doing the kitchen were super careful with everything and covered every surface with big mats and towels. They have finished and decorators came in to paint the walls and the ceiling. They are using small brushes because they said that the gaps are not big enough for rollers, although there is a big wall without cupboards or anything. They have been three days and every time I come in from worm and check I'm getting anxious about all the drips and small splashes everywhere. I raised up with them and they were quite laid back saying it's water paint based and it will come off easily. But it's still there. They are finishing on Monday and said not to worry, that they will clean then whole thing before handing it over. Yet I have just now been ten minutes on a tile trying to get the paint off just with warm water, soap and an sponge and it doesn't lift easily. I imagine they will have to use some strong product or a scraper, and it's making me feel annoyed and worried that the new floor will end up with scratches or without some protective layer if using chemicals, which might make them stain easily. Floor is cream coloured with patterns, paint is water-based washable kitchen paint. I'm actually losing sleep over this, literally, worried about having to spend hours checking and cleaning bits left behind or that by the time they hand over my new floor won't look like when the kitchen company finished. Maybe I have been spoilt with the other team as they were so incredibly tidy and careful. Maybe the painters are right in saying not to worry and let them clean it. DH says that if I'm that bothered we can tell them to stop and we finish it ourselves, as we cannot be much messier anyway.

YABU - chill and let them finish, it is indeed easy to clean and that's standard

YANBU - I would stop them, it's a pain to clean.

You are proud that you paid someone less than the minimum wage?
Never mind that they also have to make holiday pay, dont get any sick pay etc

I am in an emotional rollercoaster. One minute I calm myself down and say to myself that they will clean, they have tools I don't, and just to wait it out. They have been recommended by the kitchen people so maybe they take some responsibility if it goes wrong?

The next minute I see some paint on a cupboard door, all around the edges on the floor, on the oven, across the worktop... And I am filled with worry. I picture permanent damage to something that I haven't even used yet and waited over a decade to do because of costs.

Their answers are: "it's water-based paint. It can be scratched off easily with your nails. We'll clean before leaving." I can't scratch with my nails throughout and neither can they, it took me 10 minutes to clean a tile fully with warm water, soap and a gentle sponge. I haven't tried scraping with a tool, I'm scared of scratching the tile. It's not a gloss tile, it's a matt ceramic tile, not sure if that makes any difference. Maybe they have something that it's easy to clean with and it's also gentle with surfaces.

I believe they believe they can clean it. I don't trust that their standard of clean is my standard of clean (and new). In some areas it's white paint on white surfaces, so might be missed or they might say "it is not that visible". Maybe it's just my worries. I haven't seen them clean. I might just ask them to clean an area before doing anything else. My understanding is that they are finishing on Monday and it's just bits and bobs, but there are areas around the frames and corners that have not been painted, the skirting boards need to be done, and behind the radiators there's an area that hasn't been touched (but DH says they won't do that).

Pictures might be very outing as the floor pattern is quite distinctive (think Greek ceramic tiles, cream background and darker patterns on top). The splashes are the size of £2 coins or larger in some areas, thin strings like chocolate on pancakes on another area, small group of tiny dots together in others. There's paint on the floor, particularly the edges, the unpainted skirting board, the door frames, the plastic window frames, the oven door, the sink, the edges of the new cupboards, etc. They had a couple of sheets that I saw them use after I first queried this, but then new splashes were made somehow, as when I came from work there were new and bigger ones. Are those wipes able to remove paint from any surface?

[I'm typing on the phone at the same time that I try to do bedtime, sorry for the string of typos above.]

Once had a local team of decorators do 2 rooms and some external paintwork one summer. Took forever, kept disappearing, dropped paint everywhere. On the hardwood floor, on cushions and on one memorable occasion inside a suitcase that I had left on a bed. "Oh, it is water-based paint" they said "it will wash off". It did not. Gave them a fair review on checkatrade, but knocked one point off for cleanliness and had the boss call me and try and brow-beat me into changing the review. If your gut tells you it is wrong then trust it.

I'd be concerned. My DH was a high end painter and that practise was not on all. Lots of prep and cleaning at you go.
The cheapo “teams" that come in leave it a mess like that. Once they get their money they're gone and the homeowner is left upset.

Cleaning AS you go bloody phone.

We are not paying, kitchen business is, or they are doing it as some kind of favour to them. No idea of the arrangement. In exchange for something else that we paid for but didn't have, the kitchen business agreed to arrange for local decorators to come and do that, as they handed over the kitchen and the walls were all a mess with new plaster and patched bits. We talked about painting when agreeing the quote but there was a back and forth this week over what this meant. They said they don't do decorating and it was just covering up the patches to a basic white. We said we showed them pictures of what finish we wanted and also bought the paint. They said that they didn't get that as an instruction to paint but more to get an idea of what was our inspiration in the context of discussing the design. As other things were changed or removed and we had overpaid, they said they could get us a local team to do that. They were busy and booked but could pop in and paint.

That's exactly my understanding, that you should clean as you go and then check and clean before you leave. This has not happened so far. :-/

Water based paint is only water wipeable before it dries !

I'd tell em to sort it ASAP .

😔

You need to contact the firm that fitted your new kitchen and tell them you are far from happy with these sub contract cowboys , any comeback will be them not the painters .

Obramaestra please do not be so arrogant about how 'little' £180 I paid the guy who did my painting. He came and quoted a price which was £150. I was so pleased I have him £180. He lives locally and does not drive, I picked up his gear the night before, he arrived on his moped for work and I took his gear to his home when he was finished.
You were very rude.

180 for 2 days is 90/day. The minimum wage at present is 9.50/hour.

For this guy to have been paid less than minimum wage, he'd have had to be painting over 9 hours a day and there's no indication he did so.

If he worked 7 hours a day, he made 12.85/hour. If he worked 7.5, he made 12/hour.

have = gave

Rubbish
For someone self employed they have to pay NI on top of that
They have to save for bank holiday and holidays
They need liability insurance
(possibly VAT but not if he works for modern slavers who pay less than NMW)

So if you take that £12 and work that out it is less than the NMW.

Precipice He worked 9-4pm the first day and 9-1pm the second day.

I'm sorry @JediNinja - they sound like cowboys.

There's a saying which is something along the lines of - decent decorators don't use masking tape. Because they don't need to. If you're not a very good decorator, masking tape is your friend. If they have got anything at all on the edges of the floors, they are poor decorators.

It's a shame you had overpaid, as payment is your only real leverage. What I would do now, though, is damage limitation. If they are incompetent but are going to carry on anyway, I'd do all the taping and covering before they next arrive. You'll probably need to do it for each visit, as masking tape tends to stick firmly if it's left for any length of time. Frogtape is better. Water based paint really does need to be wiped off before it dries, but it's not impossible to remove. I once had a "professional" oo do a bit of decorating as I was massively behind schedule with a rental property, and they made a mess. I did get the paint off tiles and marble worktops, though, with a wallpaper scraper (gently) and the abrasive side of a washing-up sponge and some Pink Stuff paste.

If you take that view, it's irrelevant whether he was paid less than NMW, because NMW wouldn't apply to him. You can complain that he was paid less than you think he deserved (in theory; in practice your complaint on this thread, without context as to the hours worked, is silly), but there's no point bringing NMW into it.

If he's self-employed, he's setting his own rates for his painting. It's not like he's taking on freelancing jobs for set pay.

Jeez... I came on here to say that I was pleased with my painter. I did not beat him down on price. I paid him 20% more than he asked. I did not expect to have to justify my morals.

@LadyB49 my husband is a builder. has a few painters he uses.there is no way that price is right. here in Ireland that is the price you pay cash to someone who is also claiming the dole too.
@JediNinja I would be doing what @passionpackaged has suggested.

I have no idea of his circumstances. He is not a professional painter (tho his work is professional), he is a handyman who paints very well.

OP,

You are going to have to be very clear to the kitchen crowd that you are very very concern by the condition that the place is in.

There is no point in saying nothing now, and crying about it afterwards.

The kitchen people are responsible so deal with them directly.

Being passive and hoping for the best wont get you anywhere with cowboys.

Deal with the kitchen people firmly.

What a stressful business, but you will have to speak up or you will be walked all over by them.

I think you probably need to chill, but if it is causing you this much anxiety why don’t you cover up the surfaces yourself?

OP not to freak you out but this doesn't sound right at all.

What are you frightened of? That is completely unacceptable. Tell them so. Tell the kitchen company in no uncertain terms. Say you want them out of there and to send you proper decorators. What are your kitchen floor tiles made of and what sort of finish?

I'm no painter but I've painted my kitchen and indeed the whole house without getting drops or splashes everywhere. Because I took care. These are not proper decorators.

Last time the house was done up, I had painting done by someone who had the use of only one arm but did it neatly and efficiently with no splashes or any bother at all. Did it much quicker than I could.

@passionpackaged I think I'll do that tomorrow and send a message to the kitchen place. I'll try to clean a bit more and see if I manage to lift it with something else.

Thank you everyone for the perspective and advice.