To ask you too attend a candlelight vigil tomorrow evening in Edinburgh, Bristol or London

[Sophforthe100]

.. for the 100 students every year who take their own lives every year.

The law needs to change so that Universities have a duty of care to their students.

Fine out more: www.forthe100.org.uk/vigil

I'm a very regular Mumsnetter who has name-changed to post this.

It's not about individual lecturers having responsibility, it's about the institutions taking more responsibility for their students. And the petition specifically states it is not about Unis being in loco parentis.
Here are interviews with some of the families involved today: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001jxb4/points-west-evening-news-04032023

But you specifically mentioned teaching with “reasonable care and skill” as something which comes under that duty of care, which suggests you perceive a deficiency and responsibility on the part of lecturers, not just the university. What is lacking here, in your view, and what constitutes teaching with “reasonable care and skill”?

While workplaces have provide safeworking environments, so do universities for students. Since when do workplaces legally have to provide access to occupational health or counselling services, welfare checks or pastoral support for those that aren't acting themselves?

But you're still not saying what additional responsibilities you actually expect them to take on.

Universities already have lots of responsibility towards their students.

Universities already have lots of responsibility towards their students.

They do not have a statutory responsibility to their students however. But they do to their staff.

Well there is an expectaion that employers are required to prevent emotional and physical ill health in relation to their business practices so that would be adhering to health and safety requirements and completing risk assessments etc

Im not aware that they are required to provide counselling etc, but even if they were, some universities do this. But that doesnt seem to be OPs position, she has mentioned several times about universities contacting parents and wanting them to act as parents to the student

But you're still not saying what additional responsibilities you actually expect them to take on
Why are you avoiding this question?

Sorry also they dont have to supply OH but obviously would work with the employee to implement recommendations by their own doctor if necessary

But what does that actually mean, can you give 3 examples of things that would be implemented?

Nobody’s trying to be mean or unkind, and it goes against everyone’s instinct to not agree with something a grieving parent is saying.

But if you want people to sign a petition and put their name to something, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for a bit of detail rather than just ‘duty of care’?

that doesn't seem to be OPs position, she has mentioned several times about universities contacting parents and wanting them to act as parents to the student

I have not said that. I have explicitly stated that the petition is NOT calling for unis to be in loco parentis.

Some posters have inferred this, but what I said was that there were some situations where students had given consent for unis to contact their parents with mental health concerns, and they had not done this. And the students had gone on to take their own lives, when the parents felt that they might have been able to prevent it had they been told what the uni knew.

Again; what additional responsibilities do you want them to take on?

But you're just repeating yourself without actually saying what it is you want them to do.

It's not appropriate for universities to be in a position where they're communicating with parents. Students are adults who are responsible for themselves and for getting themselves help and support if they need.

It's not the job of the university to get involved and act as the middle-man anymore than it's an employers' job to contact someone's spouse if they're concerned about their MH.

According to the relevant professional body they already have a legal duty of reasonable care for regular students and a duty of enhanced care for vulnerable students. What other legal duties of care do you think they should have?

univwww.amosshe.org.uk/resources/Documents/AMOSSHE_Duty_of_Care_2001.pdf

Complete silence from op on the "what exactly do you want from them" front.

Workplaces don't have to work with the recommendations of a doctor unless the recommendations are about “reasonable adjustments” if someone is disabled. Universities have to do that too.

what planet are you on where employers offer welfare checks on someone who is absent, or respond kindly if someone "isn't themselves" at work!

as to 72 hours without a break, that only applies on the premises, not off.

Yes you're correct, I was being a bit optimistic there!

More rudeness, defensiveness and aggressive language from multiple posters who honestly seem to think students should all fuck off and die.

Are you all academics? Or are some of you “school of life, kids these days don’t know they are born”?

Such hype... Literally nobody thinks students should just fuck off and die.

This is the "duty of care" that universities owe employees, and students

check that all electrical equipment is maintained safely

provide PPE in labs when required

Use a properly trained gas fitter

etc etc etc etc

Beyond that, what is required between employer and employee - but students are not employees

Again, if I go for a hair cut, I should expect the saloon owner has maintained the electrical equipment safely, supplies PPE for any strong chemicals that need it, has used a properly registered gas fitter, etc

I can tell the hairdresser anything I want about my mental state, it isn't her business, it isn't her problem and it isn't her duty to respond

Just imagine the red tape nightmare if hairdressers had to assess the mental health of every customer, and respond in some way

Hair salons would be shut by administration overload within a few days

That would also happen to universities

I think universities have to some extent started providing more support services in recent decades, but this is voluntary, and in this current climate, with pressures like this put on them, they are far more likely to cut back and shut services, because rather than being something the offer for the possible benefit of some students, it is going to be something they are held accountable to, to a totally impossible level, which could cause them so much trouble

The logical thing to do in those circumstances would be to withdraw all support services and keep them closed

It's not appropriate for universities to be in a position where they're communicating with parents. Students are adults who are responsible for themselves and for getting themselves help and support if they need

Yes, there are privacy concerns here too. If parents want to be more interventionist that’s their call. Having said that, in many cases where I hear about students’ emotional distress the parents play a big role in causing this.

Such hype... Literally nobody thinks students should just fuck off and die

yes, very offensive. No one has said that or thinks that.

You are the aggressive one. Nobody thinks students should fuck off and die.

Can you please point out where the aggressiveness and rudeness was? Of course someone will get defensive.

Or you could put it this way

Edinburgh university provides every single one of its 50 000 students with free access to a mental health professional once every single year

In other words, a huge, voluntary, expensive investment in mental health

which if they have any sense, they will now ricind, as as rather than being seen as a generous act of support, they are being vilified for not doing more, and people think they should be blamed for student suicides

It is the typical response - do anything at all to help anyone, and you lay yourself open to the totally unreasonable demands to do far more, and a shedload of blame and possible legal action