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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you kill your pet if ordered to by the gov't?

638 replies

JackiePlace · 02/03/2023 12:31

I read in the news this morning that at the beginning of the Covid crisis the gov't considered ordering the culling of all domestic cats in order to prevent the spread of Covid. This idea was later abandoned after it was proven that cats couldn't transmit Covid to humans.
AIBU to think that this would have caused a mass uprising? We are a nation of animal lovers, after all. Or would people have accepted it as they did some of the other draconian regulations (not visiting dying relatives, etc).

www.lbc.co.uk/news/govt-cat-cull-covid-pandemic/

OP posts:
Verbena17 · 02/03/2023 21:54

Buzzinwithbez · 02/03/2023 20:42

And the fact that scarily the police were making their own law up for the first several weeks.
I would have assumed they'd have been carefully briefed on it, but no...
There was no law even in place for the first three days, so they were enforcing something that they hadn't seen and didn't yet exist.

Show quote history

Just because something is said to be law….doesn’t make it lawful 😉.
That was the case for the covid ‘laws’. One day people will realise just how much the wool was pulled over their eyes.

Tanktop · 02/03/2023 22:13

No no no. The very idea makes me feel ill. They would have to take me out first.

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 02/03/2023 22:21

This whole thread is making me feel really distressed and should go. I've unfollowed but it's popping up again.

I lost count of friends screaming at me "that's the rules. That's the law. The police will come for you. Boris says so" when I voiced my opinion about the lockdown. One day I went out for a walk and a friend told me off because I sat down. "You sat down on a WALL?"

Amongst my friends there were those who wouldn't meet for walks outside, were terrified to drive anywhere in case the police got them and their mental health was stuffed. And "I can't come to your door so I'll leave this halfway up the garden" Amazon delivery drivers frisbeed packages from halfway down the street.

Another friend disinfected all her grocery shopping.

People went nuts.

EsmaCannonball · 02/03/2023 22:36

I'd turn into Wat Tyler, Guy Fawkes and William Wallace combined. The fuckers would rue the day.

I seriously think any government trying to do this would be making a very bad move.

Xol · 02/03/2023 22:45

All the people saying absolutely not: would you say the same if presented with absolutely irrefutable evidence that the alternative would be the deaths of, potentially, hundreds or thousands of people?

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 02/03/2023 22:46

Xol · 02/03/2023 22:45

All the people saying absolutely not: would you say the same if presented with absolutely irrefutable evidence that the alternative would be the deaths of, potentially, hundreds or thousands of people?

Given the lunatic overreaction to covid, I can't imagine that would happen.

Xol · 02/03/2023 22:53

But suppose it did? What then?

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 02/03/2023 22:55

Well then it wouldn't have been covid in 2020 when this possibility was discussed, for starters.

whumpthereitis · 02/03/2023 22:58

Xol · 02/03/2023 22:53

But suppose it did? What then?

If you want to play hypotheticals, which loved ones of yours would you sacrifice to save thousands then?

IDontWantToBeAPie · 02/03/2023 23:14

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 02/03/2023 22:21

This whole thread is making me feel really distressed and should go. I've unfollowed but it's popping up again.

I lost count of friends screaming at me "that's the rules. That's the law. The police will come for you. Boris says so" when I voiced my opinion about the lockdown. One day I went out for a walk and a friend told me off because I sat down. "You sat down on a WALL?"

Amongst my friends there were those who wouldn't meet for walks outside, were terrified to drive anywhere in case the police got them and their mental health was stuffed. And "I can't come to your door so I'll leave this halfway up the garden" Amazon delivery drivers frisbeed packages from halfway down the street.

Another friend disinfected all her grocery shopping.

People went nuts.

Really? Nobody seemed to give a shit round my way. There was rule breaking everywhere you turn. But that's probably because a busy central London neighbourhood has great scope for anonymity.

ProbablyDogNappersHunX · 02/03/2023 23:34

whumpthereitis · 02/03/2023 22:58

If you want to play hypotheticals, which loved ones of yours would you sacrifice to save thousands then?

Show quote history

Not remotely hypothetical

I knew a young man in his early 20s, at university, bright future ahead of him. He was diagnosed with cancer - a very treatable form with extremely high rates of survival. During first lockdown they delayed his treatment; he even went to the press about it as he was so scared. He died in autumn 2020.

At the same time I had a grandparent in their late 90s. We were very close, and I visited frequently despite living in another city. But - I have to be realistic - they had lived their life already (they've since died of sheer old age).

The country seemed perfectly willing to shut down to protect nonagenarians, but twenty-something cancer patients were thrown under the bus.

I really struggle with the idea that my grandparent's life was prioritised over the life of someone in their 20s.

whumpthereitis · 02/03/2023 23:57

ProbablyDogNappersHunX · 02/03/2023 23:34

Not remotely hypothetical

I knew a young man in his early 20s, at university, bright future ahead of him. He was diagnosed with cancer - a very treatable form with extremely high rates of survival. During first lockdown they delayed his treatment; he even went to the press about it as he was so scared. He died in autumn 2020.

At the same time I had a grandparent in their late 90s. We were very close, and I visited frequently despite living in another city. But - I have to be realistic - they had lived their life already (they've since died of sheer old age).

The country seemed perfectly willing to shut down to protect nonagenarians, but twenty-something cancer patients were thrown under the bus.

I really struggle with the idea that my grandparent's life was prioritised over the life of someone in their 20s.

Show quote history

not the same scenario as the hypothetical though, is it? Which was would you kill a loved one in order to save many? Which is an action, not a passive acceptance of risk and letting the cards fall where they may.

TheOriginalEmu · 03/03/2023 00:12

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 02/03/2023 19:18

For that analogy to work though, since most people would be very upset about the deaths of their pets, they'd have to be giving themselves electric shocks.

I presume there could come a point when people felt sufficiently threatened by a disease that many of them would be willing to see their pets killed, but it doesn't follow that the early days of covid was it. Additionally, we don't actually have that much in the way of police and army in our society, so it would've been very hard to enforce. Those may well be amongst the reasons why the government realised it was a bad idea.

Practically speaking, I think if it ever did get bad enough that a good number of the population would consider this, we'd have a lot of vigilante pet killing and that might be a bigger deal than our rather small police and army trying to enforce it.

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It doesn’t necessarily need to be enforced for people to comply. A figure of authority tells people to do it, and they will. It’s been replicated in many different ways, with members of you own family being the electrocuted etc, people will still do it.

I just think there are a lot of people who say they wouldn’t, but in reality, they might well. Especially if there was a credible threat to their family’s or their own personal safety from the cat.

Spectre8 · 03/03/2023 00:37

Omg if its about cats I would absolutely loved it of the government chnahed the law at the time to say they are no longer allowed to roam and they had to be kept indoors to stop spreading covid. Then the law coikd of stayed in place and my garden would forever be free of cat poo!

what a missed opportunity

XenoBitch · 03/03/2023 00:43

Spectre8 · 03/03/2023 00:37

Omg if its about cats I would absolutely loved it of the government chnahed the law at the time to say they are no longer allowed to roam and they had to be kept indoors to stop spreading covid. Then the law coikd of stayed in place and my garden would forever be free of cat poo!

what a missed opportunity

I don't think any cat owner would have an issue with that. They can cat proof their garden so their mogs cans still get outside.
A huge world away from being forced to have them PTS.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 03/03/2023 07:10

TheOriginalEmu · 03/03/2023 00:12

It doesn’t necessarily need to be enforced for people to comply. A figure of authority tells people to do it, and they will. It’s been replicated in many different ways, with members of you own family being the electrocuted etc, people will still do it.

I just think there are a lot of people who say they wouldn’t, but in reality, they might well. Especially if there was a credible threat to their family’s or their own personal safety from the cat.

Show quote history

It's been replicated with people's family being the loved ones? Where and when?

maddiemookins16mum · 03/03/2023 07:24

I think part of the reason this thread has (understandably) become so emotive is the title. It’s as if we would have had to kill our cats with our bare hands.
If the title had said ‘take to the vet to be PTS to save thousands of lives’…….some of the responses MAY have been different.

ArcticSkewer · 03/03/2023 07:30

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 03/03/2023 07:10

It's been replicated with people's family being the loved ones? Where and when?

Show quote history

Huge numbers of psychological studies show that humans are basically prone to doing whatever someone in authority tells them to do.

ArcticSkewer · 03/03/2023 07:32

maddiemookins16mum · 03/03/2023 07:24

I think part of the reason this thread has (understandably) become so emotive is the title. It’s as if we would have had to kill our cats with our bare hands.
If the title had said ‘take to the vet to be PTS to save thousands of lives’…….some of the responses MAY have been different.

and that's exactly how the government would have phrased it ... and most people would have done it.

People are weak, really, and stupid, and credulous. Poor combination.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 03/03/2023 07:38

maddiemookins16mum · 03/03/2023 07:24

I think part of the reason this thread has (understandably) become so emotive is the title. It’s as if we would have had to kill our cats with our bare hands.
If the title had said ‘take to the vet to be PTS to save thousands of lives’…….some of the responses MAY have been different.

My reaction would have been the same - they could fuck off. I would have kept my cat indoors if I had to but I would have hidden him rather than have him PTS. He has a cat proofed garden so doesn't roam but I'd have kept him in rather than risk the cat hating nutjobs getting him.

Cornettoninja · 03/03/2023 07:46

Jesus, is this thread still going?

It’s basically a digital version of arguing against yourself in the shower.

This didn’t happen. How people are drawing fictional conclusions from a scenario that didn’t happen, anywhere in the world, and allowing themselves to get so worked up over it is beyond me. There’s plenty of reality to get the blood pumping if you’re determined to get outraged over something.

Cornettoninja · 03/03/2023 07:49

ArcticSkewer · 03/03/2023 07:32

and that's exactly how the government would have phrased it ... and most people would have done it.

People are weak, really, and stupid, and credulous. Poor combination.

Show quote history

Ha! Pot meet kettle… would, could, all supposition created in the bias of your own mind and presented as a forgone conclusion.

But yes, it’s everyone else that’s the problem. Good job you’re about to shine a well informed light eh?

MarshaBradyo · 03/03/2023 07:50

fairywhale · 02/03/2023 21:31

Those who supported the lockdowns mostly would have, yes. Those who gave up all freedoms quicker than the PM's fart and supported the destruction of life and health that the lockdowns caused would have followed absolutely any instruction, without any questions whatsoever, same way as they did with supporting anything they were told to support.

Yes we pretty much went there anyway. Outrage at those not following mostly not at the extreme things in place.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 03/03/2023 07:56

ArcticSkewer · 03/03/2023 07:30

Huge numbers of psychological studies show that humans are basically prone to doing whatever someone in authority tells them to do.

Show quote history

What's being claimed here is that this would extend to people doing something that would cause pain to themselves and a loved one. Which actually is something quite different to the bog standard authority thing. It was an important part of the Stanford study that the participants didn't know each other. If you want to try and apply the lesson learned from that research here, actually what it would look like is people killing other people's cats.

A person claimed that there are similar studies where people electrocuted their own family members. That's a pretty huge deal and so I'd like to hear about them.

Alexandra2001 · 03/03/2023 08:08

Those who supported the lockdowns mostly would have, yes. Those who gave up all freedoms quicker than the PM's fart and supported the destruction of life and health that the lockdowns caused would have followed absolutely any instruction, without any questions whatsoever, same way as they did with supporting anything they were told to support

People had no choice, you do realise that the restrictions weren't optional?

We couldn't go to a funeral or visit a dying relative in hospital or go to the pub or have a meal out or go shopping.... these things were banned and shops pubs etc shut.

My partner went out for a cycle ride with a mate, they had a visit from the Police... whilst having a coffee nr Seaton.... or as Matt Hancock would say "Get the Police to go heavy with the Public" whilst he xxxxed his secretary.

How many people moaning now (in rose tinted hindsight) keep voting Tory? who gave us these draconian measures, whilst they fucking well ignored the rules.