4 year old bitten at pre-school

[Butterflymummy95]

My 4 year old daughter has been in preschool since September, she had been getting on great until december when another child has seemingly begun to pick on her.

Backstory - the child and my daughter attended a pre-pre nursery together for a year before starting preschool together so I would be friendly with her mum.

Since December DD has been coming out almost every week with a different incident. She has punched DD in the stomach, pulled her down to the ground, kicked her under the table, numerous occasions of hitting and the latest today she has bit DD's arm quite badly which is now very bruised and swollen.

I had called the teacher at the beginning of January and just explained my concerns and she had confirmed there had been a few incidences which they had known about and had spoken to the child and were to keep a close eye so I let the school deal with it. But today when I got a phonecall about the bite, the other child's mum also got a call from the school. The mother text me to ask if DD was ok and I said yes but sent pictures of her arm. She then tried to make light and joke about the situation and when I said I wasn't happy because it had been an ongoing issue she has really got annoyed and told me I've made the situation worse because I spoke to the principle today about it (who completely agrees with how upset I am)

So AIBU for saying something to her mum (my friend) about how I'm feeling and telling her that I think it's best the girls don't play together anymore?

YANBU in wanting to keep the children separate.

I don't understand why the mother wants her daughter to be around another child her daughter clearly doesn't like - well if you liked someone you wouldn't try to beat them up each time you saw them.

Thanks for the reply! I can't understand it either, and am very upset that she tried to make light of it and joke about it then turn it round on me!

I hate confrontation so was a big thing for me to say something about it and now have the anxiety of if I'm overreacting 😣

YANBU but to be fair to the Mum she isn’t in charge of the children when these incidents happen. She should be firmly supporting the pre-school with any actions to help manage her DD’s behaviour but she can’t be held responsible for her behaviour whilst there (unless she’s not doing the former).

Don't talk to the other mother. The only thing it will do is cause more problems. If she talks to you, just say that due to the ongoing situation you feel it is best for the school to deal with all matters relating to the children's interaction and behaviour as a neutral third party as you do not wish to inflame the situation further.

Make sure it is firmly flagged with the school though. If you haven't put something in writing about concerns over safeguarding your daughter, do so.

This may well rattle on for some time. If you have things in writing the school have to take action on it, rather than merely phob you off. Also if this other girl has some kind of learning/ behavioural issue you are actually helping her and the school by doing so because it means the school have incidents documented and can argue more the case for intervention should it be needed.

A boy in my son's year has been doing similar since reception. It's rattled on longer than it should have due to COVID / parents being in denial of the problem. The boy has had incidents with numerous children (I now know at least four sets of parents have put in complaints). I suspect it will rattle on for some time longer before there's a real huge issue unfortunately and he is removed from the school. But the school can't do that without having gone through all the due process stuff.

It's utterly shit. DS is now in yr3.

I won't speak to this boys mum if I can possibly help it. It's not going to achieve anything or improve the situation. I regard it as flogging a dead horse.

She's probably made light of it due to sheer embarrassment but it still doesn't excuse her behaviour and snippy attitude thereafter. I wonder how she would react if the shoe was on the other foot? These are serious concerns, the punching, kicking and knocking down not to mention the biting. I'd be furious if your DD was my child OP.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm sorry youve been going through all of that it must be super hard.

I wasn't planning on saying anything, and haven't since it began. It was only due to us being friends and her messaging me regarding it so that's when I said look I'm not happy and have spoke to the school about it as it isn't the first time. I have told her I won't be responding anymore to her. She is adamant she's going into the school tomorrow to ask why they haven't informed her about any previous incidents and that they've had calls with me in regards to how her child is treating mine.

This will be the schools last chance before I take it further though, I just hope now that the principal is aware they really do keep a close eye and try to keep them apart.

Being her friend I know if the shoe was on the other foot there would be murder! She is very outspoken and wouldn't be long in going after whoever it was. I completely understand kids hit still at this age, DD is no angel either (more so at home but is very well behaved in school) but it seems to be escalating to something more each time and the fact she now has a childs full mouth bruised onto her arm I'm just distraught more than anything. If it had of been her doing the hitting biting etc I would be taking it very seriously.

Do you know the other child op? Is it possible that this is a sign of some sort of behavioural issue and the Mum is in denial.

You need to deal with this through nursery, if she messages again just tell her it's best to let nursery deal with it as neither of you were there at the time. You are totally right to be upset by this behaviour and to get nursery to investigate further.

@SpecialK2023 Bs! This will stem from something they are/aren’t doing at home so she absolutely is flaming responsible. What a crappy response!!

Did you read my post properly were I made an exception for that exact scenario?

@WonderingWanda yes I've known her since August 2021 and had been very good friends with her mum since then. There could be a possibility of a behavioural issue as her mum has said to me recently that she is lashing out at home. Kicking and punching her mum, pulling her hair and stabbing her grandma with a fork - so it isn't just at school.

I regret responding now and getting into it with her but thought with being friends and knowing how her response would be if it was the other way around she wouldn't have kicked off. I plan to leave with nursery now and have no further correspondence with her

Some good advice on here already.
Different note - if the skin is broken yoybshould get it checked over at Drs, risk of getting infected from human bites & also may need tetanus booster

This has gone beyond that now, what her child is doing to yours is really awful. I agree with you not going to interact with her further and to let the nursery handle things but it has to be to your satisfaction. I think in the long run your friendship may suffer because she is not taking responsibility for her child hurting your DD.

I also agree with the pp, if the skin is broken its best to get a wee check up.

I hope your DD is OK.

She is right to ask the school why they haven't been passing on this information. They should always make parents aware of ANYTHING concerning their child so home and school can work together.

Hopefully if the school speak to her properly she might realise how serious it is? Although I agree with a PP she may just be in denial if it's happening in all areas of her DDs life. It's really not normal behaviour, the child needs more support. Definitely let the school deal with it from now on and only step in if you feel they're not dealing with it adequately.

The lesson I've learnt is everyone views their child as a little darling angel, even if they aren't. And they go full lioness if its suggested differently. If you keep that in mind it makes a lot more sense. DS is an only and I didn't really know any other children as a reference point for whats 'normal'. The other child in DS's class seems to fit into that pattern and its taken the school a LOT of effort making the point a lot that there is a problem. I know that in yr1 this child's parents actively refused to engage with an assessment though it does appear this has now changed. Poor kid got hung out to dry because of this - if he'd had earlier intervention things might not be so bad now.

I also know there's tonnes of incidents that school dont tell parents. Mainly I think because unless a member of staff has actually seen it, it becomes 'he said she said' and the school can't, with confidence, say to the parents of the offender 'x did this'. They might suspect it, but don't know for sure. Which in the face of pushy lioness mothers who are in denial, unfortunately, isn't sufficient because they then go 'well little Johnny wouldn't do that, I'm reporting you for having it in for my child without evidence etc etc'.

Unfortunately, its almost like your child has to be whiter than white, a pattern emerges with multiple children / incidents and staff witness some of these incidents. Schools don't want to challenge parents unless there is a persistent problem in the face of these lionesses. And I can't blame the schools for that if I'm honest.

It is worth you remaining calm and ultra reasonable with the school. If you kick off, its counter productive, even if you feel like it. Its not easy. Try and see it from the point of view, that a child of that age doesn't act like that unless there is a problem and they need support. If parents aren't giving it, they need the school and other parents to be on their side - and reporting incidents absoluetely is part of that. But remain as factual as possible, trying to keep the emotion out of it.

Hopefully, your situation will improve and will ultimately be easier to solve than the issues in my sons class (part of the issue is there are a number of other children with special needs and they are all setting each other off and its becoming a bit like the brain teaser about how you cross the river with the fox, chicken and the grain without leaving two together to get eaten).

Update - school told me they would be keeping a close eye, and the principal spoke to all the preschool children. Although none of this seems to have done anything. Today already there has been 2 incidences. My daughter dropped something off the table and was under the table picking it up and the girl kicked her while she was under the table so no one could see and then again outside she followed my daughter into the treehouse and hit her. My daughter did tell her teacher about this and the girl was put in time out. But to me this doesn't seem to be doing anything?? Can a 4 year old be classed as a bully? I'm at my wit's end and just want to cry

Raise it as a safeguarding thing rather than bullying.

Whether it's bullying or the child has some kind of unmet SEN need the preschool are failing to keep your daughter safe from a pattern of targeted attacks. The other child is not being sufficiently supervised

The reason why it's happening and the cause of it are irrelevant. Focus on the fact your child has a right not to be constantly hit.

Say that you feel that the interventions used so far are not proving sufficient and the incidents are continuing to happen regularly. They need to take further steps to protect your daughter.

Be prepared for this to carry on. Think about keeping a diary of events. You need this to escalate and raise the level of complaint if necessary.

Tbh she’s right to be furious with the school.

There’s an ongoing issue with her child and she hasn’t been informed. So she’s been given no opportunity to do anything with her DD to try and sort it.

Totally understandable that you’re pissed off and you’ve done nothing wrong, but she’s likely been caught right on the hop that this is actually a serious, ongoing situation and she’s been unaware of it.

My child’s sen adhd non verbal age 4 and doesn’t hit other children but is extremely distructive when he has a meltdown and will throw Chuck and break objects I have to collect him immediately (temporarily untill he gets a one on one.) It is classsd as endangering other children.

Is her mum not being rang to collect immediately?

This won't get better. Are they going to a single form intact school together? If so, I'd definitely recommend looking at other schools. I know it sounds dramatic but I've seen it in the school I work at and these kind of toxic friendships, especially in girls, don't tend to dissipate without forced separation. And in a single form entry school, the only way of doing this successfully is to remove a child really.

And much better to start elsewhere than have to move your child a few years in once the bullying has ramped up and they internalise the experience.

Oops zombie thread. Any update OP?