Company wants me to pay back holiday days.

[Mooshamoo]

I started in a job in November 2022. We have an online annual leave system .
At the start of January 2023, 21 days on our online system became available to me for me to take.

I asked my manager could I take two weeks off at the start of the year. I took the last week of January and the first week of February off. This was approved by my manager. I took them. I was then moved to a new manager. Which was the way the company worked. New starters were with one manager. After two months you were changed to another manager

The company was pretty abusive and at the end of February I decided to leave.

I left. I then got an email from my second manager saying I had taken more annual leave days in the time I worked there, then I had accrued. And that I have to pay this annual leave money back. It is 550 euro. I'm in Ireland. This is a lot of money to me as i am now in between jobs.

Can they do this. My first manager who approved the annual leave days, never told me that I did not have enough annual leave days to take. She approved them. She never told me at any stage that if I left the company that I would have to pay these annual leave days back. If I had known that I wouldn't have taken them .

Can they do this to me now?

OP at the company I work for we also had an employee do something similar. They left without notice meaning their annual leave overpayment wasn’t deducted from their final salary, as they didn’t return after payday.

We contacted the employee who advised us that they were due to start another job but not until three weeks later and therefore wouldn’t have the funds to begin repayment immediately. We agreed a monthly repayment plan over three months, with the first payment being 4 weeks after they had started their new role to give them time to get paid. Your best bet is to contact your company and suggest something similar I.E first repayment in April to give yourself time to find another job. Lots of employers would prefer to work something out civilly than battle for the money back, so you’re best off contacting them now so that they are more open to coming to an agreement.

Yes of course they can do that. You accrued holiday for your time worked, so for example if you get 24 days holiday, you earn 2 days a month. You can take more than you have accrued earlier in the year, but this makes you 'in debt' to your employer until you have accrued these days back. The understanding is you will be working the whole year and accrue your full entitlement, so you can take days when you wish.

If you leave part way through the year, your employer may owe you holiday, which means you have accrued days you haven't taken, and they have to pay you these when you leave. On the flip side, you may owe them, and have to pay them back.

Because its absolutely standard. Otherwise people would keep job hoping and taking off months early on then quitting.

Yes it' standard practice. It will be in your contract. You need to pay it back.

I really feel for you Op. You're not dumb, you just didn't think. I was employed by a Bank for 27 years, and I've been self employed for 10 years, and I can honestly say that I could have made this mistake, just by not thinking it through! Easily done, especially if you're desperately unhappy and tired etc.

If I was you, I'd lay out all of your grievances in a letter to them. List all of the things that they did wrong, such as no breaks and you always working 1 hour unpaid at the end of each day - work out what they owe you for that work. They are breaking the working time directive rules. You could threaten to report them to whatever body they are covered by (Ombudman type thing). There's a chance they could waive it for you, if they think you're going to kick up a stink. Do not part with any money, until you've exhausted every avenue of complaint. Chances are they will just get fed up of fighting with you. That's what I'd so anyway.

No something else happened before the company manager called me.He didn't just call me because I was personally upset. Let's just say it was because some of the outside world were becoming aware of how much the staff were being ill treated , and it was this external influence that made the company director begin to start to look at the Ill treatment.

Have you ever had a job before? It'll depend on what your contract says but this is entirely normal.

I've read all your posts OP but maybe the reason you didn't know about this is because it's so standard that people just take it as expected

Your annual leave allowance renewed in Jan. The company assume you will work the annual period to accrue for the year
If you leave in that year and have not accrued enough leave you need to pay it back

Notice periods protect the company because they can usually process this amount from your final salary

You will need to pay this back or they could start legal action so get in touch to discuss options

Have you had your final pay? If so then you are in a good position to agree a payment plan with them. Make sure it is something you can manage. They won't be able to reach into your bank account and take the money.

So, head up, shoulders back. You now need to find a new job.

Yes they can, you had not built up enough days

If you were paid last week, won’t that be for the previous weeks work? You normally work a week in hand. In which case they’ll deduct it from your last payment this week?

Except that later on in the thread another HR person (or at least another person who has identified themselves as HR) has commented with exactly the opposite advice, which is agreeing with the majority of people.

I don't get paid a week in hand. I get paid monthly. I was paid on the 24th February for February and I left on the 24 th February .

Do you still think I would be due any more salary? I don't think that I am due any more salary, from looking at it

Regarding the breaks (and I work in a contact centre so I know how it works) what would happen if you took your break - which I assume was at a set time according to your schedule? Especially working from home where there isn't a physical presence of a manager, why did you not just take it? I get the workloads and targets and call queues meant you felt you couldn't, but you know you can just change your status and go on your break? What would happen if you asked about going on your break? And was your managers aware of you not taking any breaks?

I'm saying this as a manage a large team in very busy contact centre which constant queuing and I make sure my guys take their breaks, we worse closely with resource planning to ensure we have enough people on so people can have their break.

No you wouldn’t be due any more salary in that instance. If you’re paid for the whole of February on Feb 24th then you may owe a weeks wages. I am paid on the 20th, which means i am paid in advance from the 20th to the end of the month.

If that is true and they actually want to improve staff morale - businesses do want to minimise staff turnover because recruitment and training is expensive and time consuming.

They will also want to avoid bad publicity and risk of being prosecuted for breaking employment laws, unless perhaps the call centre you worked for was for a certain well known budget airline?

Therefore, it could be worth giving them another chance, even if it's just a short period of time (3-6 months?) for you to get your finances straight. Is there any chance of working for them part time to reduce your stress levels a little?

Obviously it wouldn’t be an entire weeks wages owed, just any hours you were contracted to work from the 24th-28th of the month.

No they haven't.

If that's the case, it will be you who owe them salary (which could explain the jump from 550 to 700 euro? Because they paid you until today, but you left last Friday.

Good grief! Are you seriously saying you didn’t read your contract before joining the company? Are you really this dumb that you not only didn’t read the contract, don’t know how annual leave accruals work, but also left one job without another one to go to?

I had to laugh at your comment if “you gave to work every second of the day”. What do you think work is? Being paid to read magazines and chat to your mates? Have you never had a job before? Buckle up! Life is going to get a lot harder than this as an adult.

If you are paid by the hour you are not salaried. I think you really need to educate yourself on how the working world works.

@Mooshamoo OP, don't be so hard on yourself.

You wee naive but you've learnt a life lesson.

And you say you needed the leave to look after your mum, which you have done.

I have worked in a call centre like this, when I was a student, and I understand the culture, people quitting every day etc.

It's 550 euro. Yes it's a big chunk of money but it's not the end of the world. Give yourself a break, tell the call centre you have no money, and work out a payment plan of a small amount each week/month.

Get a better job - bar work, cafe, supermarket etc. All better than the type of call centre you were in.

You'll be ok, chin up.