Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Wills and step family

53 replies

eyeoresnewhome · 27/02/2023 22:27

My dad died last year.. been married to my stepmother for 40 years.. we have always got on well.

They had mirror Wills. So my step mum inherited everything. House worth 1.2m (nothing special but south east).

Wills say everything to each other and then everything between the four of us. Two children each none joint.

Step mum just passed and it turns out she changed her Will 6 months ago (when in sound mind ) and left us out leaving all to her two kids.. ( they are mortified- genuinely) want to know what they can do... can they change it to make it as our dad had wanted it ?

OP posts:
OhcantthInkofaname · 28/02/2023 01:31

Sounds like you were more siblings than not.

endofthelinefinally · 28/02/2023 01:32

Fifi0102 · 28/02/2023 00:13

He mentioned he's done an update to his will he's savvy with money. I guess I just have to hope his wishes will be respected. The law does need updating with the rise of second marriages.

Show quote history

The law is very clear. It is up to individuals to get professional advice and make appropriate arrangements.
I have asked MNHQ if there could be a web chat about estate planning and wills because this situation is so common. Not to give individual advice, but just to lay out the legal position and explain the options and how to avoid this situation with second marriages. They are thinking about it.
You can't just change the law and hope that will protect everyone. People need to take responsibility and make their wills accordingly.
Far too many people don't get advice before making their will and there are too many people offering will writing services on the cheap and giving bad advice.

MakingTheVeganYorkshirePud · 28/02/2023 01:35

@Jizzle it is a really shitty thing to do, even though she is entitled.

Original poster
eyeoresnewhome · 28/02/2023 06:38

We will see what happens today. I am just so blindsided by this (as are my step siblings- I genuinely believe they had no idea) .

Most of all I am upset by my step mothers actions. It's so bizarre and out of character. They have always been a huge feature in our lives. She is my dcs grandmother and appeared to relish the role . It feels like she was just putting on a magnificent performance for 40 years!

Not at all distant either geographically or emotionally. We have seen each other at least fortnightly. Often weekly. All big festivals spent with them as our mother died when we were teenagers. So they are the only GPS (DH parents also long since died) our DC had.

Wills were openly discussed many times. With them both saying that it all goes to who ever dies second and then on to be divided between all dc. So she knew this is what we all understood and expected.

As an aside I am interested in those that say DF should have left the property 'in trust' for SM life and then divided between all dc.. and vice versa with SM Will if she went first. To avoid this possibility occurring..

I don't understand this. If property makes up 90% of this estate and they are married then surely neither party can Will a jointly owned asset away from its owner.. I assumed that the property owned by a married couple automatically became the property of the other party upon death .? Therefore a trust is not relevant in this case ?

OP posts:
soleilblue · 28/02/2023 06:42

eyeoresnewhome · 27/02/2023 22:36

Ok ,,, stand down vipers ❤️. .. just as I typed this my step sister found this solution too.. she is going to call the Solicitor in the morning to get this set up.. thankfully her brother (my step brother ) completely agrees this is correct way to go

However ... if we didn't get on so well what the fuck ???

Well yeah that's why mirror wills are not the way to go in "blended" families.

The solicitor involved advised them poorly.

soleilblue · 28/02/2023 06:44

eyeoresnewhome · 28/02/2023 06:38

We will see what happens today. I am just so blindsided by this (as are my step siblings- I genuinely believe they had no idea) .

Most of all I am upset by my step mothers actions. It's so bizarre and out of character. They have always been a huge feature in our lives. She is my dcs grandmother and appeared to relish the role . It feels like she was just putting on a magnificent performance for 40 years!

Not at all distant either geographically or emotionally. We have seen each other at least fortnightly. Often weekly. All big festivals spent with them as our mother died when we were teenagers. So they are the only GPS (DH parents also long since died) our DC had.

Wills were openly discussed many times. With them both saying that it all goes to who ever dies second and then on to be divided between all dc. So she knew this is what we all understood and expected.

As an aside I am interested in those that say DF should have left the property 'in trust' for SM life and then divided between all dc.. and vice versa with SM Will if she went first. To avoid this possibility occurring..

I don't understand this. If property makes up 90% of this estate and they are married then surely neither party can Will a jointly owned asset away from its owner.. I assumed that the property owned by a married couple automatically became the property of the other party upon death .? Therefore a trust is not relevant in this case ?

You can own it as tenants in common.

illiterato · 28/02/2023 06:55

soleilblue · 28/02/2023 06:44

You can own it as tenants in common.

Show quote history

You can but I think you make that election when you buy the property and tbh I would never accept a TIC arrangement with DH as if he changed his will to leave his share to someone else on death then I’d be screwed. I may be wrong but I think a marital home held as JT can only be passed to the other tenant without reservation. Does anyone know?

Lemme · 28/02/2023 06:55

You have to plan ahead with your will. Mine leaves everything to my husband in trusts which he can spend as he likes. However if he marries and perishes first, half of what he has left goes to my children. I would expect that if he has stepchildren by that point then he would make a new will to distribute his share as he likes. I didn’t want all of my hard-earned capital to be left to my kids’ stepmother, if he were to remarrry.
OP how wonderful that your SS is sorting this out voluntarily. What a relief.

Scarbsbeach · 28/02/2023 06:56

Mirror Wills were a way to mitigate Inheritance Tax as it was say 40 years ago. A lot has changed in the Inheritance Tax laws in recent years, and Mirror Wills are not needed in the same way.. But of course some people don’t update their wills and they still exist. There was nothing to stop your SM from updating her will, but it was a pity she did it that way as it spoils your feelings about her now she has gone.

How open-hearted and generous of your half-siblings to set the ball rolling on the Deed of Variation of their own volition. Such honourable behaviour seems to vanish all too often when it comes to money and Wills!

LidlLost · 28/02/2023 06:58

@eyeoresnewhome things may have changed but my recollection is that a Deed of Variation needs to be executed within two years of the death of the person's Will you are varying. I highly doubt it will take you that long but something to be aware of.

BarrelOfOtters · 28/02/2023 07:03

We were advised by solicitor to not have mirror wills for this reason…

we haven’t gone the trust route as I didn’t want his kids waiting for me to die if he goes first. But now we own a house together I think we need to change the will otherwiSe I’d have to sell my home if he died first. It’s very hard to get my dh to engage on this….

Im99912 · 28/02/2023 07:07

My parents did this
tenants in common
the right to stay in the house till they died
then given to the beneficiaries
only thing with a trust is that when the first persons dies you have to register the trust with HMRC within two years and do I think an annual estate tax return which I didn’t do 😂
but HMRC were very nice and help full and didn’t charge me any penalties

Fairyliz · 28/02/2023 07:14

SomeareDeluded · 27/02/2023 22:34

She was obviously not of sound mind to do that to the children of the man she was married to all those years.

So very sorry and how unfair OP.

I expect she knew exactly what she was doing; blood is thicker than water etc.
Same thing happened to me and unfortunately my stepbrother decided to keep everything as that’s what his mum wanted.
Don’t expect the money until it is in your account op, funny how greedy people become around money.

Mermaidpool · 28/02/2023 07:14

Glad you got it resolved, I worry about this happening as my step siblings would take delight in keeping it all!

Toooldtoworry · 28/02/2023 07:23

I don't understand this. If property makes up 90% of this estate and they are married then surely neither party can Will a jointly owned asset away from its owner.. I assumed that the property owned by a married couple automatically became the property of the other party upon death .? Therefore a trust is not relevant in this case ?

You either buy as tenants in common or sever the joint tenancy and make it tenants in common. Then you can leave your share to whomever you wish with a lifetime interest for the survivor of you.

This is part of the area I work in.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 28/02/2023 07:32

I am not a lawyer, so happy to be corrected, but as I understand it mirror will is a term in common use but it doesn't mean there is any binding legal link between two wills or that one will can't be changed later. All it means is that at the time the wills were drawn up two people said to the solicitor 'We both want the same thing, whoever dies first to leave everything to the other, kids get it all when we die'. At that point the wills are mirror copies, but there is no reason whatsoever why one or both of them can't make a new will later on, and they have no obligation to tell anyone else.

Also, blended families aren't new. Until very recently they would mostly have arisen after one spouse was widowed and re-married while young or middle-aged. The law in this area is very clear. The problem is that people don't sit down and have the difficult conversations about money and inheritance that would prevent some of the issues we see on MN time and again after a stepparent/remarried parent dies.

illiterato · 28/02/2023 07:40

Toooldtoworry · 28/02/2023 07:23

I don't understand this. If property makes up 90% of this estate and they are married then surely neither party can Will a jointly owned asset away from its owner.. I assumed that the property owned by a married couple automatically became the property of the other party upon death .? Therefore a trust is not relevant in this case ?

You either buy as tenants in common or sever the joint tenancy and make it tenants in common. Then you can leave your share to whomever you wish with a lifetime interest for the survivor of you.

This is part of the area I work in.

Thanks- in your scenario, what happens if the SM had wanted or needed to move? Do they sell the house and she gets her half in cash?

NotAnotherBathBomb · 28/02/2023 07:45

eyeoresnewhome · 27/02/2023 22:36

Ok ,,, stand down vipers ❤️. .. just as I typed this my step sister found this solution too.. she is going to call the Solicitor in the morning to get this set up.. thankfully her brother (my step brother ) completely agrees this is correct way to go

However ... if we didn't get on so well what the fuck ???

Their kindness doesn't change the bitchiness of SM, so don't know why you made the vipers comment 🤷🏽‍♀️ she was a c*nt to do that

worried4698643 · 28/02/2023 07:46

That's awful of her.

Thankfully your Step siblings are reasonable

familyissues12345 · 28/02/2023 07:51

Pleased your Step sister is a decent one!

DH had an issue with his step mum a couple of years ago, who after receiving her money from her late husband, DH's Dad, she immediately changed her will and then told DH about it Shock. A much much smaller amount of money - they were married in their sixties so both already had adult children, property etc, so both wrote wills leaving everything to children but a small token to each other, with the promise to return that money on the death of the second person.

MIL announced she was changing it, DH and his brother didn't need it. It wasn't the money, it was the fact it felt like she'd gone behind the memory of my lovely FIL.

It has changed the relationship, DH's step sister has said she'll do a deed of variation if her Mum doesn't change it. I just can't fathom how MIL saw this playing out?! Makes me pretty sad really, as she's generally a nice person.

It was made particularly hard because the bulk of FIL's estate was made up of DH's late wife's inheritance, hence why FIL and his wife had very separate wills - FIL saw it as DH and BIL family inheritance, and his wife had her own wealth so wasn't going to be left high and dry in any way shape or form.

I wonder why people behave like this?!

NamelessNancy · 28/02/2023 07:57

Sounds like they were ill advised re mirror wills. This sort of thing scares me. Whilst I realise that if I die there won't be a lot I can do about it DH and I have agreed that neither would remarry. Cohabitation, fine , but as we're both way past more kids we would not marry again to avoid putting our kids' inheritances at risk. If cohabitation were given the same rights as marriage there would be a lot more of these cases.

Pleased the step siblings are decent. I hope they see it through as money and inheritance can do weird things to people (like OP's stepmum)

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 28/02/2023 08:01

That's the thing, isn't it. You can do nothing to protect your children once you're dead. All you can do to try to ensure they don't get disinherited is to make a will that will be fair both to your widower and to your children and covers all the bases of what may happen after you die. It's very hard to force yourself to think about these things, but the alternative is worse.

[Note to self: review will.]

Lambchop1 · 28/02/2023 08:03

She showed her true colours at the end and has tarnished her own memory, stupid woman.

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 28/02/2023 08:04

At least they wrote wills, albeit SM them wrote a different one. No wills at all would have meant all your DF estate would go to her, and then all her estate would go to her children; and you'd have had no idea whether your father wanted you to Inherit or not. I have nothing from my own father as a result of such a situation.