Page 5 | To think alcohol should be made illegal or drugs made legal?

ineverforgot · 2023-02-25T19:44:28+00:00

I was on a training course recently and was told that alcohol is the biggest killer out of allll drugs. Also cocaine (which is now widely accepted) kills on average the same amount of people as heroin - note the prejudice differences between the two. But my question is - someone has a few drinks = violence, aggression etc (not all obviously) Someone smokes a joint = eats food, laughs, chills. Now I'm not stupid, I know that they say that weed causes mental health issues. As does alcohol!! Also if someone has a mental health problem and smokes a lot of weed, then there's a problem as weed triggers the mental illness. However, weed doesn't cause the mental illness. Much the same as alcohol. So my questions are - Number 1 - it is physically impossible to overdose on weed. Weed is not physically addictive. The opposite is true for alcohol. - cocaine and heroin kills the same amount of people - however a massive stigma related to heroin users. Why? Cocaine is cheap these days as sectioned into 'council' 'prop' etc. Why don't the government make it all legal? All taxable?

PocketSand · 26/02/2023 18:32

Also, the weed haters (smell, county lines, exploitation) which I'm sure is an issue for some, ignore the m/c who have known their dealer for decades or who grow their own for personal use.

Are you taking about class or drugs?

RancidOldHag · 26/02/2023 19:52

PocketSand · 26/02/2023 18:32

Also, the weed haters (smell, county lines, exploitation) which I'm sure is an issue for some, ignore the m/c who have known their dealer for decades or who grow their own for personal use.

Are you taking about class or drugs?

Where do you think the "m/c" dealers use to get their supplies?

LocationLocationLocomotion · 26/02/2023 20:10

I fucking hate the smell of weed. I hope it’s not made legal tbh

LocationLocationLocomotion · 26/02/2023 20:12

bluetakkis · 25/02/2023 23:31

This 'weed isn't physically addictive' bollocks has always bemused me. Having lived with someone who has been intermittently addicted to weed and alcohol, there are definite physical withdrawals from weed, definite cravings, definite psychological changes. Not addictive? My arse.

Exactly. My husband has tried more than once to stop and ended up back smoking it again. I really really hate it but at least he’s cut down and hopefully will stop for good in the future.

LocationLocationLocomotion · 26/02/2023 20:18

DarkOphelia · 26/02/2023 09:15

The US experienced what pretty much happens when you legalise opoids with the oxycontin epidemic. The idea that you reduce the social harms involved in the supply of the drug isn't exactly true; you just shift the social harms from criminal enterprises to legitimate enterprises.

No matter what the substance, if it is state altering, a lot of people will use it. And inevitably, for many of them, the use will become lifelong and develop into abuse.

I've seen what happens with regular weed use. We used to refer to a certain phenomenon as The Thirty Shock, because so many weed smokers we knew got to thirty and realised they'd done virtually nothing in the previous ten years but a bit of casual, low paid work while spending their evenings smoking weed and gaming.

Now I'm in my late 40s, I've seen lives intrinsically altered by regular weed smoking. Not because it's triggered mental health problems per se, though I've seen nasty cases of that, but because regularly smoking weed stops people from dealing with the shit they really need to sort in their lives. It allows people to hide from necessary decisions, provides a hazy screen between them and slowly brewing housing, employment, financial or relationship problems.

If we legalised drugs, we would need to be prepared for the fallout. Okay, you'd reduce criminal activity involved in the supply, but you'd inevitably see social harms develop elsewhere: child neglect, for a start.

And you'd be bringing it all out into the open, and you'd need to fund decent rehabilitation centres.

This exactly

Bingbangbongbash · 26/02/2023 20:57

Hmm. Not sure I agree with the idea that the oxy epidemic is what happens when drugs are legalised. That was a very specific instance where people with injuries and chronic pain problems were being given incorrect information by their doctors. If you’re using something to medicate because you are in pain, and you’re told it’s not addictive, it’s easy to see why you would take it as much as needed to help with the pain, by which time you are addicted.

That’s a different circumstance to recreational users.

Heroin definitely presents a more complicated problem when it comes to legalisation, but I don’t for one second believe we’re all going to be smackheads the second prohibition ends.

pointythings · 26/02/2023 21:51

@Bingbangbongbash the Oxy epidemic in the States was also ably abetted by the pharmaceutical industry. In the UK we are extremely careful with opioid painkillers, and rightly so.

If it were really as simple as legalisation/harm reduction = making things worse, the Portugal model would have failed. It hasn't.

Florenz · 26/02/2023 22:34

Alcohol shouldn't be made illegal but it should not be sold in supermarkets and normal shops, but only in heavily regulated off-licenses. It shouldn't be looked upon as a normal grocery item like bread, milk and cheese. It should not be allowed to be advertised at all.

Cannabis should be fully legalized and sold in special shops along with tobacco.

DemiColon · 26/02/2023 22:41

Some drugs are legal.

But overall, no.

Alcohol isn't, first of all, just a drug. It's an agricultural product and its most primary purpose is preserving nutrients and calories in a form that can be stored. In some cases, for quite a long time. The kind of very widespread extreme use as a recreational drug is to a large extent the result of industrial production.

It's not used so much now as a way of preserving agricultural products, but it's still relevant for some. And many people use it as food rather than as a drug.

As far as weed, I live in a place where it's been legalized, and I don't think the results have been great. Many people now seem to believe it much be harmless, inlcluding for your young teenagers. Which it manifestly isn't.

DemiColon · 26/02/2023 22:48

DarkOphelia · 26/02/2023 09:15

The US experienced what pretty much happens when you legalise opoids with the oxycontin epidemic. The idea that you reduce the social harms involved in the supply of the drug isn't exactly true; you just shift the social harms from criminal enterprises to legitimate enterprises.

No matter what the substance, if it is state altering, a lot of people will use it. And inevitably, for many of them, the use will become lifelong and develop into abuse.

I've seen what happens with regular weed use. We used to refer to a certain phenomenon as The Thirty Shock, because so many weed smokers we knew got to thirty and realised they'd done virtually nothing in the previous ten years but a bit of casual, low paid work while spending their evenings smoking weed and gaming.

Now I'm in my late 40s, I've seen lives intrinsically altered by regular weed smoking. Not because it's triggered mental health problems per se, though I've seen nasty cases of that, but because regularly smoking weed stops people from dealing with the shit they really need to sort in their lives. It allows people to hide from necessary decisions, provides a hazy screen between them and slowly brewing housing, employment, financial or relationship problems.

If we legalised drugs, we would need to be prepared for the fallout. Okay, you'd reduce criminal activity involved in the supply, but you'd inevitably see social harms develop elsewhere: child neglect, for a start.

And you'd be bringing it all out into the open, and you'd need to fund decent rehabilitation centres.

Yeah, the experiments with harm reduction are always presented as saving so many lives. But that is calculated simply in terms of how many people might have od'ed, but didn't, or were saved when they did.

They never seem to count what the effect on the general attitude to drugs is, how many people might have quite but were enabled not to, or the effects on the local neighbourhoods. The latter in particular often seem to be very significant.

Valeriekat · 27/02/2023 03:47

ineverforgot · 25/02/2023 20:07

So we should just ignore all the symptoms alcohol causes?

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Prohibition in the USA is one of the big reasons NOT to outlaw alcohol.

Daisychained8 · 27/02/2023 04:37

ineverforgot · 25/02/2023 20:07

The psychosis would have happened anyway.

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No, OP.

Drug induced psychosis is induced through drug use. Hence the name.

Without the weed, there would be no psychosis.

Daisychained8 · 27/02/2023 04:38

I know people who are hopelessly addicted to weed. Your course doesn’t seem to have taught you much useful information!

knitnerd90 · 27/02/2023 05:01

Drugs aren't exactly legal in Portugal. They are decriminalised. That is, the government does not go after individual users for possession. however, that does not make it legal to sell or distribute.

in contrast, in canada and many US states, cannabis has been legalised, and its sale is legal and regulated. It's a mixed bag. It was getting absurd trying to enforce the law. It's certainly better on an individual user level. However one of the hoped for results, that legal sale and distribution would help stop the involvement of criminal gangs and illegal grow ops, has not yet happened. It's still a bit early to say as it has not been federally legalised in the USA which means it's difficult to access banking and so forth.

This is one of the issues with drug policy -- it's not just about the individual user but control of the trade. Gangs, cartels, etc are so deeply embedded in it and they are not going to want to give up that money train.

MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 27/02/2023 08:24

WiIson · 26/02/2023 16:01

All the more reason to legalise it.

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I actually don't entirely disagree with it being legalised, as it is known to have some benefits medicinally.

However, it would need to be on the basis of having a version that doesn't smell at all and only with a medical card.

MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 27/02/2023 08:28

inky1991 · 26/02/2023 17:29

*Respectable??!! Are you having a laugh

They are propping up the modern slave trade, abuse, exploitation of children and the vulnerable all to fill the pockets of drug gangs.

Respectable people don't break the law, nor financially support other people breaking the law, nor support children being abused and exploited.

Respectable my arse. Despicable more like.*

😂 You seriously need to get a grip. Jesus Christ

You clearly don't work in the line of work myself and my husband do, or you wouldn't be so flippant about this.

Ever seen a drug house? With some poor sod forced to live a virtual prisoner in squalid conditions to keep the farm going? Ever had to deal with a 14yo caught up in County Lines and their terrified parents? Ever dealt with a 6yo girl assaulted in her own home because her 15yo brother was caught with drugs on his way down the County line and now he owes them thousands and can't pay? Ever dealt with a Mother who realises she needs to uproot her whole life and family and move to the other end of the country to protect her teenager who is been exploited. Ever been to a crime scene where a young male has been stabbed to death because he owes debt on his weed habit
.

Thought not.....what we need to get a grip of is people who think it's "just a bit of weed" and it's harmless. It isn't...it is so far from harmless it's shocking.

Treetopviews · 27/02/2023 08:38

Hi op. Prohibition has been tried before. It was 1920s America. It did not work well. Plenty of info on line about it if you want to find out more about your new prohibition proposal.

in addition there are plenty of countries across the world where the local population is banned from consuming alcohol. Mainly as alcohol is forbidden under Islam.

there are also some states in the USA which remain dry today, also for religious reasons, usually Mormon or evangelical. Alcohol is not sold in these counties but can be consumed.

we do not live in a nanny state and as such it’s us to drink responsibly. Which the vast majority of people do. I don’t know what happened to you where you think alcohol equates to violence and aggression. And sorry you feel this way, but although it does happen in a minority of cases, the clear evidence is it is far from the majority.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 27/02/2023 21:05

In the UK we are extremely careful with opioid painkillers, and rightly so.

Codeine based drugs are handed out like smarties. There is a thriving trade in Tramadol on the streets. And although it is not an opioid, Diazepam is also handed out far to readily. We have a long way to go to manage these medications well.

pointythings · 27/02/2023 21:47

@Atethehalloweenchocs that isn't what I hear on this forum and in other places - where it's actually not all that easy to get a repeat prescription for serious pain meds. I wonder how much of the street trade is through illegal imports by criminals rather than being pushed by doctors and pharmaceutical companies the way it has been in the US?