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AIBU?

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Original poster

To worry about Kate Forbes becoming first minister

620 replies

Creatine11 · 24/02/2023 10:01

Abortion and LGBT rights have been something that have largely not been part of political debate for at least the last 10 years. Gay marriage was enacted in 2014 and was broadly supported. The last serious challenge to abortion rights was at the start of the coalition government with Nadine Dorries et all. However, broadly gay rights and abortion rights have been settled issues- it has almost been taboo for politicians to oppose them. Certainly, there hasn’t been any serious possibility over the last decade (at least) of any rowing back on abortion, gay marriage, gay adoption, divorce law etc.

However, it is clear that in the heart of hearts of Forbes she disagrees with all these things due to her beliefs as an evangelical Christian. By all accounts she was very competent as a minister and has been a good MSP. However, as first minister she will be a figurehead for Scotland as well as setting the tone for policy and political discourse. Also, unlike Rees-Mogg and DUP types, Kate Forbes seems like an otherwise sensible, competent, ‘normal’ politician.

My concern is Forbes being the leader of Scotland could normalise her views on these issues. While I don’t believe abortion or gay marriage face immediate threat, if it’s brought into mainstream politics it will become a party political issue and may well shift public opinion, especially given the current culture war. Politicians, journalists, activists and others who have held these views quietly may be emboldened to launch a new campaign against abortion, LGBT rights or some other issue. I don’t know this would necessarily just be limited to Scotland as Nicola Sturgeon and her policies had a very high profile in the rest of the UK and influenced policy.

Aibu to worry about Kate Forbes becoming SNP leader and first minister?

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · 24/02/2023 12:31

And the Greens have the SNP over a barrel. Harvie and Slater have already said they'll withdraw from the power sharing agreement if things don't go how they want it and the SNP are in far too vulnerable a position to be a minority government.

Waitwhat23 · 24/02/2023 12:32

Waitwhat23 · 24/02/2023 12:29

I don't agree with her views on same sex marriage, no sex outside marriage etc but whether she holds those views is irrelevant to this leadership race anyway - she's not going to be allowed to win it.

The high heid yins at the SNP want Yusfuf. They don't tolerate dissent. Once they've destroyed Forbes, they'll move onto Regan.

The whole thing is a farce.

Typo - Yusuf

Workerbeep · 24/02/2023 12:34

Kate Forbes gave the explanation that everyone is multifaceted.

This is lost and is too nuanced in our age of identity politics in Scotland, where people base their whole lives around one aspect of themselves; their jobs and social lives all within an echo chamber of a sole strand of their personality. If you are not with us, you are against us.

You can often see this in the gay and faith communities for example.
This separation and closure from others is more pronounced in Scotland where the independence movement has taken hold and most of the country have fallen for the quick fix that our independence from U.K. but rejoining EU will fix everything.
Independence crafting, choir, walking, music group are everywhere the list goes on…I know many who base their whole lives, work and social, around the independence movement and do not wish to engage with anyone who views are different.

bridgetreilly · 24/02/2023 12:34

Most religious people do judge others by their own beliefs and think they are right and others are wrong.

FTFY.

Botw1 · 24/02/2023 12:37

@bridgetreilly

Only if you completely ignore the context of the question I was replying to.

Not sure why you would though...

HBGKC · 24/02/2023 12:40

LaviniasBigBloomers · 24/02/2023 10:40

My issue with Kate Forbes isn't her beliefs or leadership bid, it's the fact that she's always been honest about what she thinks and yet is still voted in as an MSP and has already reached the highest levels of the party.

You therefore have to assume that her constituents agree with what she thinks. That concerns me hugely. She has a mandate to change things. It's basically a throwback to 8 years ago when you could have put a yellow rosette on a 4 year old and they would have won. So really, we get what we deserve.

...so, you have a problem with democracy? Or only when the outcome doesn't align with your own views?

triforcetotem · 24/02/2023 12:44

Genevieva · 24/02/2023 11:58

I am not worried at all about her personal religious views. It is clear she has no intention of imposing them on others. It is perfectly possible to uphold the law and oversee the provision of public services while belonging to a religion that promotes traditional family values. Most practicing Muslims would agree with her and do not get picked apart when seeking public office.

It is also very Christian to believe simultaneously both that sex is for procreation within a stable married relationship and that children conceived should be treasured, and that all humans are fallible, people should not judge others (that is for God to do) and that we should welcome everyone.

So, while I don't share her religious views or practices, I do think she is perfectly capable of being First Minister of Scotland. In fact, she comes across as extremely competent.

Surely the fact that she would've voted against same-sex marriage suggests she is willing to impose them on others?

MrsFinkelstein · 24/02/2023 12:44

Emotionalstorm · 24/02/2023 11:56

Abortion rights are not in even the slightest danger in the UK. No need to worry.

Yeah, that's what women in the US were told in 2016.

And I know we are not the US, but rights get taken away when people get complacent.

Hotcuppatea · 24/02/2023 12:46

I'm more worried about Hamza Yousless winning. He's an incompetent and a bully.

MrsFinkelstein · 24/02/2023 12:47

"By all accounts she was very competent as a minister and has been a good MSP".

YABU as she is neither competent or effective.

user1471447863 · 24/02/2023 12:47

Humza Yousaf in hypocrisy storm as the minister who took same-sex marriage bill through parliament claims he asked for an excuse to skip vote on it because he was “under so much pressure from the mosque”

as reported in the Scottish Daily Mail today. So the Mosque (or churches too i expect) do put pressure on their adherents.

Trainbear · 24/02/2023 12:52

WhereAreMyAirpods · 24/02/2023 10:35

It's going to be Humza Useless.

Kate Forbes is too controversial for her Wee Free views which belong in the 19th century. Ash Regan is too controversial because she knows what the proper definition of a woman in.

Humza is the "continuity candidate" who will deliver more of the same shite to the Scottish population.

Useless is the best candidate to ensure the Natz get thrown out at the next holyrood we lection.

Trainbear · 24/02/2023 12:53

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Don't forget the scooter incident. Clumza Useless.

MrsFinkelstein · 24/02/2023 13:07

Trainbear · 24/02/2023 12:52

Useless is the best candidate to ensure the Natz get thrown out at the next holyrood we lection.

Show quote history

Yep. Fingers crossed

Eyerollcentral · 24/02/2023 13:09

triforcetotem · 24/02/2023 12:44

Surely the fact that she would've voted against same-sex marriage suggests she is willing to impose them on others?

Show quote history

No, that’s not how democracy works. You abide by the will of the majority. She wasn’t the only person to vote against gay marriage, do you think she is the only one of that cohort that wants to impose her views on others?

IBelieveInAThingCalledScience · 24/02/2023 13:10

CountZacular · 24/02/2023 11:24

I can't get over the absolute hypocrisy that an evangelical Christian is a problem but a Muslim man isn't. Either their religion is going to conflict with their jobs or it isn't.

Kate Forbes is not going to role back gay marriage. How do you suppose that would even happen? It's not a popular issue and certainly not one her party would support.

Vote for her or don't, but you are an absolute idiot if you think Humza doesn't go in with his very own biases too.

This pretty much sums it up.

Eyerollcentral · 24/02/2023 13:11

MrsFinkelstein · 24/02/2023 12:44

Yeah, that's what women in the US were told in 2016.

And I know we are not the US, but rights get taken away when people get complacent.

Show quote history

The situations in the UK are not remotely comparable. The right to abortion in the US was established by a judgment of the Supreme Court. The right to access abortion in the UK is enshrined in legislation. To overturn a Supreme Court ruling isn’t any way near as difficult as repealing legislation.

Holyroodhell · 24/02/2023 13:14

If you live in Scotland you are faced with someone honest with rather outdated views, someone shifty with a reputation for breathtaking incompetence and someone who if there is a majority of votes for Indy parties at any forthcoming election will treat it as a Yes vote and start Indy negotiations with the UK.

you’ve got to weigh up the alternatives. Kate is the best of a terrible bunch.

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 24/02/2023 13:24

most people have values whether they are influenced by religion or not and their views of what honesty is, what is fair etc influence how they live their lives and vote

it is permissiable to change your views and values

unfortyunately some people seem to have no values apart from self advancement regardless

no values went so well with Boris didn't it?

picklemewalnuts · 24/02/2023 13:28

Botw1 · 24/02/2023 11:54

@HBGKC

Yup.

It some how feels worse when the motivation for homophobia and mysoginy is religious though

Why?

When people are unpleasant and bigoted because they just 'don't like' someone's 'lifestyle' that's a personal targeted choice they are making.

I know some people who reject same sex marriage, but would give you their last shirt to keep you safe against anyone's criticism or unkindness, regardless of your sexuality.

I'm surprised you'd find that worse than someone who'd beat you up and happily discriminate against you.

triforcetotem · 24/02/2023 13:28

Eyerollcentral · 24/02/2023 13:09

No, that’s not how democracy works. You abide by the will of the majority. She wasn’t the only person to vote against gay marriage, do you think she is the only one of that cohort that wants to impose her views on others?

Show quote history

But by voting against same-sex marriage she would impose her own religious beliefs on the rest of the population. And yes that applies to everyone who voted or would've voted the same way.

picklemewalnuts · 24/02/2023 13:28

Genevieva · 24/02/2023 11:58

I am not worried at all about her personal religious views. It is clear she has no intention of imposing them on others. It is perfectly possible to uphold the law and oversee the provision of public services while belonging to a religion that promotes traditional family values. Most practicing Muslims would agree with her and do not get picked apart when seeking public office.

It is also very Christian to believe simultaneously both that sex is for procreation within a stable married relationship and that children conceived should be treasured, and that all humans are fallible, people should not judge others (that is for God to do) and that we should welcome everyone.

So, while I don't share her religious views or practices, I do think she is perfectly capable of being First Minister of Scotland. In fact, she comes across as extremely competent.

Lovely balanced post.

Eyerollcentral · 24/02/2023 13:42

triforcetotem · 24/02/2023 13:28

But by voting against same-sex marriage she would impose her own religious beliefs on the rest of the population. And yes that applies to everyone who voted or would've voted the same way.

Show quote history

But the legislation was passed? Every politician imposes their views on others every time they vote on legislation. How else would you expect any one to cast a vote if not based on their own views??? If she was anti gay marriage but not religious would you have the same problem?

Botw1 · 24/02/2023 14:03

@picklemewalnuts

Because religion is powerful

triforcetotem · 24/02/2023 14:16

Eyerollcentral · 24/02/2023 13:42

But the legislation was passed? Every politician imposes their views on others every time they vote on legislation. How else would you expect any one to cast a vote if not based on their own views??? If she was anti gay marriage but not religious would you have the same problem?

Show quote history

Yes the legislation was passed. I was responding to the claim she wouldn't impose her views on others, which she woukd be by voting thay way. I personally feel uncomfortable with the idea of a FM who does not think gay people should have the legal right to get married.