Is the whole ‘russel group’ thing just snobbery?

[MrsPBlotto]

DD is 17 and has applied to university this summer. Granted her course is very vocational so perhaps this bias only applies for academic subjects. All but one of the universities she’s applied to are post 1992 and the one uni she has applied to that’s not one is not an RG. I’m not bothered in the slightest as for the field DD wants to go into a degree is a degree and I’m far more concerned that she’s happy at the university she goes to.

However, I’ve seen a lot of posts here and comments from other parents saying that an RG is the best of the best and almost implying russel groups are the only universities worth going to. I’m not sure this is actually true as I know a lot of people who’ve gone to ex poly unis and been far more successful in life than those who’s gone to RG’s (granted that’s anecdotal). And I really don’t understand where this bias comes from that somehow a self proclaimed group of 20 or so universities are somehow the best of the best and any others (especially if post 1992) are not worth the money. Is this just snobbery and people trying to set themselves apart or is there any truth to the idea russel groups are inherently better universities?

We’re not in, or even really near, any major cities, so I don’t think we really get many applicants from abroad wanting to work here. Other roles certainly don’t. Diversity is extremely poor, but then I guess reflective of the local population.

I believe the sifting grads processes have just been put into place by people with chips on their shoulders about RG unis. I don’t agree with it, but like I said - it definitely happens, so it’s something I’d always bear in mind when selecting universities.

Oh I agree! It’s very short-sighted and doesn’t make a lot of sense. To my knowledge it’s only the grad schemes that do this. I recruit for other positions and I’m not that bothered where they got their degree from - or in many cases, whether they even have a degree. I just want someone with skills and experience/aptitude.

I only really commented because while it’s non-sensical, it clearly does happen - so if I was stuck choosing between studying at a RG and a non-RG uni, I would pick the RG.

But isn’t this a bit topsy turvy? You would recommend a student went to a university which isn’t among the highest ranked or recognised for their subject, because some employers like yours who, because of their blind preference for hiring graduates from universities which are not the best for STEM, will not be obtaining the top talent and therefore will never be market leaders or internationally renowned in their fields, would reject them otherwise.

Isn’t it of much more benefit to the student to push them towards one of the universities which the top employers - globally - in STEM know are among the highest ranking and internationally respected for their subject, so they have a greater chance of then being hired by one of these companies, rather than by a fairly insignificant one which is cutting off its nose to spite its face?

Yeah I'd be encouraging my DCs to avoid like the plague any potential employer who thinks that STEM degrees are de facto better if they are obtained from an RG university without carrying out any of their own tests, assessments or interviews of a wider range of applicants. What a stupid, blinkered approach.

I believe the sifting grads processes have just been put into place by people with chips on their shoulders about RG unis. I don’t agree with it, but like I said - it definitely happens, so it’s something I’d always bear in mind when selecting universities.

Gosh that is a really shockingly short-sighted attitude. I don't know what field you work in but there have been massive benefits to us from hiring a more diverse workforce - it means you get genuinely innovative ideas from people who have no idea of the 'right' way of doing things or who just turn a problem on its head because they aren't a replica of every other employee whose gone before.

And as @ComtesseDeSpair says, you're also missing out on a wealth of international talent.

I think it's a strategy that will see the business fade away as you won't be able to compete by standing still.

FFS my bonding went away. That first para
I believe the sifting grads processes have just been put into place by people with chips on their shoulders about RG unis. I don’t agree with it, but like I said - it definitely happens, so it’s something I’d always bear in mind when selecting universities.

Was a wuote from @DuckityFuck

It depends on the university and the course. There are excellent courses at non RG universities. However that's not to say all universities are the same. It would be silly to decide against an RG one just because you think they are snobby. Unfortunately there are plenty of degrees that are a complete waste of time, and some universities have low standards and attract mediocre students and then refuse to fail anyone, making it an expensive waste of time. An RG uni is less likely to offer anything really dire.

How on earth would you find out that they thought that? Surely no employer would take someone based only on their degree, without an interview?

I don't know what you mean by "people like us" but most RG universities are mostly attended by ordinary students who went to state schools. There are exceptions (Cambridge, Oxford, Durham, st Andrews, LSE perhaps) . But Newcastle, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester etc are all aimed at anyone who wants to study at a higher level. There are no airs and graces whatsoever apart from on graduation day!

@SnackSizeRaisin - you can check recruitment policies, Glass Door, industry reputation

It's really sad that people have this impression of RG universities! There's nothing snobby about most of them. With a few exceptions they take students purely based on predicted A level grades. They don't know or care what sort of house the parents live in, what accent they have, or anything else. They just want the fees money along with a student who can pass the course. Your daughter is a customer the same as if she goes to Tesco.

Obviously "STEM" covers a huge number of potential careers so it may be that DuckityFuck works in some particular area where the best courses are all at RG Universities but that definitely isn't the case for all STEM careers. I can't imagine that too many sensible engineering firms throw the applications from Loughborough graduates straight in the bin for instance.

My issue with a lot (not all by a long way) of non RG universities is that they hand out unconditional offers to kids to guarantee them. Then the kids just stop working. Had one last year get an unconditional and she just didn't bother coming to my lessons any more. They need to at least make it so the kids have to put some effort in! They just seem to want them for the money without caring if they'll actually get a degree :P

@SnackSizeRaisin nobody in my area goes to uni or my peer group or family (except me who did purely vocational qualifications at universities god knows where on league tables) so for my daughter to have got the predicted grades to be offered a place at a uni with high entrance requirements IS a massive achievement as far as we are concerned. That doesn't mean I think she will do any better academically than any other student at a non RG university nor does it mean I feel she wouldn't have achieved if she takes a place at a non RG uni (I've told her all along it will make no odds at all to potential employers as it's a vocational course)

With law in bigger firms there tends to be AAB minimum A level grades (and 2/1) so that kind of self selects anyway in that the people with As and A stars usually get to the harder to get into universities and you have to pass online tests too (and there is certainly not a RG or top 5 university or only Oxbridge cut off)

If you pick a university where people struggled to pass A levels that determines your peer group, your friends, to an extent their parents, your life and ambitions, where your friends will be looking for jobs and a vast range of things

Ive only ever heard of it on mn

None of my pals talk bollocks like that

Ds best friend got 4 ×A* at A level, she has gone to a former poly as it is the top university for her course, she had an offer from Cambridge to do maths but wanted to to product design. School did everything including blackmail to persuade her to go to Cambridge & even though she had the highest results in the year showed it by not including her in the results day pictures that were in the local newspaper & school magazine.

Loughborough?

I don't know what you mean by "people like us" but most RG universities are mostly attended by ordinary students who went to state schools. There are exceptions (Cambridge, Oxford, Durham, st Andrews, LSE perhaps) . But Newcastle, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester etc are all aimed at anyone who wants to study at a higher level. There are no airs and graces whatsoever apart from on graduation day!

@SnackSizeRaisin really? Although this may come down to how we all interpret most /mostly

Here's our overall school mix.

65% is a clear majority, but it is a long way off 90%

RG unis - all of 'em shown - percentage of students from Indies.

Exeter and Edinburgh both some way above Cambridge and Oxford.

RG unis percentage from Grammar (state schools but selective). Queens not shown as it messes up the axis. Its figure is 64%. The NI school system would be a whole other thread.

RGs - state school percentage. Any selection more likely by house price

and, with some real extremes, ethnicity of the student body

I went to an ex-poly for the course. It had a very good reputation in the industry and a 98% employment rate within 12 months of graduating.

Loved the course and my time at uni

Loughborough is not an ex poly?