To think society is too focused on equal representation?

[Confusedabouttheworld23]

Watching the news today, I saw how there is outrage over a lack of BAME winners at the BAFTAs. As an Indian heritage person myself, I fail to see how this is a huge problem from a few key reasons.

Firstly, , statistically the UK is predominantly a White country and therefore it is not statistically significant if one year there were no BAME winners. In fact a statistician tweeted that you need to look over a period of 5/6 years to see if there is systemic racism in the BAFTAs. In fact in 2021 or 2022, half of the winners were BAME, showing that you cannot read too much into such a small sample size.
As a subpoint, BAFTA voters are predominantly going to be White if this is representative of the UK Population. If it is true that people resonate with those who predominantly look like them, it is no surprise and not a huge issue that the majority of UK award winners are White. If one were to go to India for example, most if not all award winners would be of Indian heritage, this is completely fine and reflective of a country’s demographics,

Secondly, with so many other issues in the UK, I feel that a focus on equal representation is being totally blown out of proportion. We need to focus on just working hard, trying to better ourselves and get through the tough economic times we are experiencing at the moment.
A lack of diversity in acting seems almost trivial compared to other significant issues affecting the UK population - I am much more concerned about rising inflation, housing costs than the number of people who I feel represent me in film.

Thirdly, it is argued that we need to encourage more people from diverse backgrounds to go into film and other arts in the UK, and the main way to do this is to award and recognise BAME artists/actors. However, is it really a huge issue if those from BAME backgrounds go into other sectors of the economy. For example, Indian heritage people often go into STEM, finance etc, rather than the Arts which has resulted in them being one of the most economically successful groups in the UK. This is not a huge issue therefore, and hence there is not a need to push for increased diversity in the Arts to the extent that we are doing so today.
I just feel that everyone needs to just work hard and get through life, rather than focus on issues which in the grand scheme of things are not that significant.

Modern music and arts judges women on appearances and sex appeal only.

Where is the equality of opportunity you are referring to? In the arts/film/TV industries?
Systemic discrimination is still rife in this country and if we just stay on the industries that this thread is about, there has been many research studies done on racism and how people from the global majority are impacted.

I personally find the OP's view and in particular the last sentence of the first post to be reductive and offensive.

I visited a German friend (living in U.K.) and flicked through her German magazine. It looked much the same as our women’s magazines, all the usual stuff….

Except it was full of white women. I went hunting for non white women and found 2 tiny pics in adverts throughout the whole magazine (and they were quite fair in skin tone).

I was absolutely shocked. It was very jarring especially considering Germany’s high immigration. Interestingly in Germany they don’t collect data on race - only nationality, so it’s not even something they monitor!

I concluded we are VERY advanced in our thinking around diversity in the U.K. and seeing representation in the media is normal-hence the fuss at lack of representation in the BAFTAs. Lots of countries in Europe are similarly colour blind, whereas I’d say Ireland is similar to us.

I agree the problem with the arts is elitism and nepotism babies… race is tied up with this.

I dont think you as a non black person should be telling me as a black person what to think about diversity. It also isn't up to you to decide which sectors should be diversified and which should be happy to remain solely white.

What an odd post.

Ever heard of intersectionality?

I am black, working class, a woman and - with every passing hour - old. One day I will be (as will every single one of you) disabled.

I also hold power and privilege in some areas.

I love the younger generation who acknowledge these complexities - hence the coining of the term intersectional.

This! Very well said.

+1

I need to unfollowed this thread. The OPs astounding ignorance is grating and offensive.

Her attempts to ingratiate herself with white people who hold similar views demonstrates exactly how she became so successful. Yuck!!

I don't care about the baftas but I do care about representation. When I was younger I used to think similar to other pp on here. Society's job is to provide equality of opportunity and not equality of outcome. However, we have tried this for years and it doesn't work because of systemic racism and unconscious bias.

There is another very important point why representation is so important and that is to normalise being different and to change people's perception that "white" (or "man", etc) is the default and is better. Most of us (of whatever race, gender or sexual orientation) are unconsciously guilty of this. I am too (and I am of Indian origin). We need to see all kinds of people in all fields so that our unconscious bias is wiped out. You can be told a million times that a doctor of colour will provide equally good care but it's only when you see many doctors of colours providing good care that you even stop (unconsciously) questioning it as it's become the norm, ie so common that you don't even think about it anymore.

Bame (for want of a better word) kids need to see people like them being successful so they know that they too can be successful. Equally or maybe even more importantly white kids need to see this too so that they don't learn that "white" is the default or that white is better. Yes, the majority of the UK is white but if a child only sees white people achieving then they will equate white with being capable and that will become their default. That is why I like the ads where people of colour are disproportionately represented. It doesn't maybe reflect society accurately but it shows that this society (with mixed couples) isn't a big deal, isn't very different and isn't any worse. It normalises it.

I'm not explaining it very well so I hope someone more eloquent can explain my point as I do think I have a good point. :-)

I have digressed from the baftas but my point is maybe we need to Make sure that we have diverse representation in all areas of life so that we get equality in the areas that perhaps matter more. People of colour should be seen as rounded, talented and achieving members of society so that our skills aren't doubted. So that we don't have to keep proving ourselves. And to show that we are individuals just like everyone else.

Secondly, with so many other issues in the UK, I feel that a focus on equal representation is being totally blown out of proportion. We need to focus on just working hard, trying to better ourselves and get through the tough economic times we are experiencing at the moment.

I really hate this type of thinking to be honest. There is more than enough scope for multiple things to be tackled at once. Everything else falls by the wayside when you try to make politics a single issue topic.
That was a disaster with brexit and covid.
Why does having a discussion about representation in acting take away from the economic problems in your mind?

I'd say you have to tackle it from both ends because representation is important, both for the people being represented (BAME in this case) and everyone else.

I don't want to put Kate Bush down (I love her) but she looks much more like a regular woman of her age for her last couple of albums at least which have been pretty successful critically and commercially.

But yes, I take your general point that men are allowed to munt fairly hard in the music industry @beguilingeyes .

Diversity, representation and inclusion are three entirely different things. The issue is people insist on conflating them.

If you want a representative sample of the UK, for example, you won't have representatives of all ethnic minorities because they are tiny minorities. We can be inclusive without being representative all of the time. In a business setting, diversity of thought and experience is what you actually want so manufacturing racial diversity may not be the optimum (you might want to go for class diversity, for example).

People object to the prominence of these ideas because nobody ever explains the rationale for them. People are just supposed to accept that 'diversity' is inherently good.

I agree with all of this. I also work in the arts. All my white colleagues seem to think they're in some kind of white supremacy and are constantly wringing their hands over what to do about it. I'm like 'guys, only White people would be dumb enough to go into an industry with no job security, antisocial working hours, and terrible pay!'

But everyone still thinks of her as that 19 year old in a leotard. Plus she's well established now. Hounds Of Love is still the benchmark.
She's very protective of her image and what pictures are released. The dvd of the 2014 tour has never materialised.

Totally agree.

The claim that India doesn’t have a film industry(!) because Indians all go into STEM jobs is also bizarre.

This is not the same. If you notice, in many sports that do not require a lot of backing and hidden tallent, ethic minorities do really well. The example is running, all you need to be is good, and the rest can follow. This also applies to areas like football. Where it kicks out ethnic minorities in sports like sailing, tennis, car racing cars, and golf for example, where lots of money is required before you can even get to close to being a pro, these sports favour white men and women including advertising which always pays more. But also mostly white males.

I don't want to rain on Alison's parade, but I feel like the BAFTA's knew what the winning results were like and threw her in as a consolation prize with Andrea Dubios doing that idiotic create rap fest.

I could have written your post OP. Too many people look for offence where there is none to be had.

Is this discrimination against ethnic minorities, though, or just anyone who doesn't have much money? (which is most white people).

o yes, I agree, but changing the results of racism are only a sticking plaster to cover up that we have failed to address the causes

I agree with you about the adverts - and TV in general. For instance, schools or extra-curricular activities will often choose an ethnic minority to represent them in publicity, even if in reality they are majority white, and I think a good case can be made for this. Where it falls down is, why would a kid whose parents come from Africa (for example) feel 'represented' by a picture of an Asian kid any more than a picture of a white kid? Or even a picture of somebody who comes from a very different part of Africa? BAME don't all look the same, you know!

The other problem is, while it's fine to pick somebody as a kind of aspirational image on a website, it's not ok to pick (for instance) the Prime Minister, based on what they look like. We currently have an ethnic minority PM, and he didn't get there because somebody thought he'd look good in a photograph (Although, he's a clear improvement on Boris!)

Think of the bigger picture. It's a symptom. Sports, is not just sports.