Autism

[lolly07766]

I know there are many threads concerning this subject, I've just read one now.
I have a son with severe autism, limited communication and obvious learning disabilities, aibu to think the diagnosis/description should be changed for high functioning people, as opposed to those who have serious disabilities.

I have found this discussion interesting. Im not sure if I have moved much from my start point that people who are severely impacted in all the areas of impairment at all times need a quick way to say that. I guess my start point is different as that was my view of autism so thats what I expect to see when i hear the word autism and thats what I assume a service caters for. But it appears that people caring for children with that presentation are finding everyone expects sheldon and caters for that. I am still a bit confused about what happens to the moderate people and properly spikey people. Like the people who are severe in one area and moderate in two for instance. and i can see why 'mild' isnt a good word.. It would be better to have a different condition that wasnt viewed as mild than to be seen as the mild end of a spectrum in my mind. I am definitely of the view more research is needed into autism and quite like the phrase 'the autisms'. there are about 5 types of diabetes and that seems to work.

I follow advocates of the ND model. This for me is interesting but also excuses a lot of people - the different neurotype rather than disabled way of thinking. It excludes anyone who doesn't celebrate their autism and anyone severely impacted to the point of appearing to have a SLD, even if that diagnosis isn't made.
I identify most as autistic. I like the idea of neurodivergent but I feel that requires a society that recognises a cut off within autism, and is set up to embrace different neurotypes - but how can you 'just' have a different neurotype but be non verbal and doubly incontinent.

If we don’t understand the cause of a difficulty, how can we know whether one symptom is caused by the others or is an integral part of the whole condition? If there are multiple different causes and presentations of autism, then who is “right”? Can an autistic person ever be separated from their anxiety? If not, is it meaningful to say they have more of an anxiety problem than an autism problem?

*excludes not excuses

This is complete garbage. Please provide evidence or stop spouting this nonsense which is on par with conspiracy theories.

E382 for example is rosemary!

I follow advocates of the ND model. This for me is interesting but also excuses a lot of people - the different neurotype rather than disabled way of thinking. It excludes anyone who doesn't celebrate their autism and anyone severely impacted to the point of appearing to have a SLD, even if that diagnosis isn't made. so a huge proportion of the previous population are excluded from their own diagnosis? How do you think that works? Where do you think they should go? Why do you think those who appear to have LD but don’t are expendable?

@Itisbetter those are exactly my questions hence the use of excludes and not me saying I'm an advocate for it - I'm learning about the language and ideas in the 'community'.

Actually @Itisbetter you seem to be looking for an argument. No way could you think I'm suggesting anyone is expendable from any of my posts on here. So I'm done with you - this was interesting but I'm not up for being unfairly attacked by someone deliberately misunderstanding.

@OneFrenchEgg apologies I genuinely don’t get how all that works. I don’t really have any agenda against anyone personally. My interest is in understanding others thinking but it isn’t meant to be aggressive. I honestly didn’t mean to upset you at all.

If learning disabilities are separate from autism, then surely mental health issues, like anxiety, are also separate? I've taught lots of young people with anxiety, it can be crippling, but most of the young people aren't autistic. They both co-occur, but they aren't the same thing.

Autism is such a vast spectrum and I do think removing some of the 'functioning' language, and other diagnosis like Aspergers, can be problematic.

Take my DS, and my friend's DS as examples, neither have learning disabilities and both have the diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder:

My DS: Gets up in the morning and makes himself breakfast. Gets himself dressed and ready for the day. May need to be reminded that an item in on the wrong way round, but he has got much better with this lately. Goes to school, very academically able so does not need any support with his lessons in that regard. He is very bouncy so sometimes needs to be reminded to sit still. Needed social support in the younger years, but has now settled into a small friendship group. He is also happy to be on his own if his friends want to do something he isn't interested in. Comes home from school. Helps himself to snacks and drinks whilst I am working. Usually plays on Roblox, watches the TV or draws. If there is no screen he can be hyperactive and bouncy, needs to be reminded to calm down as he might hurt himself (don't jump off the furniture!) May have a chat about social skills / appropriateness depending on what has happened that day. Eats dinner, whatever I've cooked. Gets himself showered, dried, pyjamas on and does teeth. Goes to bed and reads.

My friend's DS: Non-verbal, they have tried may ways of communication (signing, pecs), so far they have been unsuccessful. Incontinent so still in pull-ups, though my friend is trying again to train him after lots of regressions, so he is having multiple accidents a day. Needs assistance with all personal care needs. Very sensory sensitive, really struggles to be around groups of people, loud noises, bright lights. Needs 24/7 supervision as he cannot be left alone, is a danger to himself and others because he can be unpredictable and lash out. Interested in flicking light switches on and off, watching the washing machine, spinning. Very repetitive behaviours. Tries to escape from the family home and school all the time. Has to have a very strict and regular routine or struggles to cope. Has a 1-1 at school, not interested in other children, gaining very little from lessons and academically behind; can't read, write, count. Friend is now having to consider a special school. Does not sleep at night and when he does sleep, wakes several times.

To just say both have 'Autism Spectrum Disorder' doesn't tell you anything. In this case, the traditional understanding of Aspergers and Autism actually works much better.

@ProbablyRomanticised and @Ca1mingC1arySag3 please don't take what I'm going to ask as being goady. I'm asking out of understanding.

If someone who presented like my son developed anxiety which would be clear to see and could happen how would you describe the impact on him?

Our children are different all with severe needs, the discussion is around different dx and from my point of view that's about needs and presentation grouping for all the reasons I've given. With a large part of your child's needs being mh, do you think autism should sit under mh as a mh condition? I don't personally think it'd ever happen mh services are at breaking point so if all with a dx moved over or had more "reason" to access services they'd be none existent.

Hope the appointment goes well and you have a large glass of something nice tonight or equivalent.

Thank you, I will think of your questions as general and not at me, this is what I think - the ND movement is interesting and has some value to me but excludes a whole lot of people including those who see themselves as autistic and disabled.

When we tried to just support anxiety the autism didnt go away (and neither did the anxiety), but when we supported the autism the anxiety reduced.

@Spendonsend with support how would you say your child 'functions'/ presents (please excuse the language I mean functions in the loose term not clinical if that makes sense? I'm not trying to cause upset with its use).

Were you only aware of the need for supporting the autism after the anxiety because of masking? Again, I'm trying to understand.

Just an observation but has anyone else noticed how often, as we pick our way through the discussion trying to describe ourselves or our children clearly without causing offence, we are using the old terminology to get to the point so we can get on with the discussion?

@OneFrenchEgg I think the nd movement is responsible for alot of the issues seen on this thread (in a broad way) due to the move from disability and clinical language to things like autism is a superpower etc. It makes discussions difficult when you can't use language to describe for fear of being labelled ableist etc

@Itisbetter yes, very much so.

Yes - I'm very interested in the ND 'movement' as I want to understand what's going on, but it just seems to deal with a cohort of people who are articulate and able to see themselves as not disabled - then you have #actuallyautisitc but all of these fail to include people who are profoundly affected across all of the triad all of the time.
My MH is appalling - I expect to be wrong, I get my mum to read emails and texts before I send them, I can't really cope with work interactions and all of this stems from not being able to communicate on an equal footing, being subject to sensory stuff that others aren't. Even when I learned another language, I got better at it. With masking it makes me feel worse, not better.

The cause of the anxiety is not a mental health condition. The cause of the anxiety is the autism. Just like how the cause of the LD is the autism. And how the cause of the speech delay is autism. And how the cause of the repetitiveness is the autism. And how the cause of the meltdowns is the autism. The cause of every one of those variations is autism. The cause of all those different presentations is the autism. All those things you think are separate conditions, are all caused by autism. That is why it all comes under Autism Spectrum Disorder.

The spectrum is not a line running from mild to severe, it is a pool of traits that each person with autism gets something from. For sure some are "luckier" than others when it comes to what they get, but at the end of the day they are all still autistic. This is what people are not understanding. There is no mild or severe, no high or low, it's just autism and its individual impact on each individual person.

Well, I don't know about anyone else, I'm only using old terms because I think you and some others struggle to understand anything else.

Oh no I don’t agree at all. I think the impact of autism on those conditions and vice versa is seen, but I don’t think they are the same I think they are comorbid. I think that where you are on the spectrum massively impacts how severely you are impacted by your deficits, but it’s the combination of those differences that impacts severity. Just as it does with other combinations of disability.

Anyway. I am hiding this thread now because it is clear that the purpose of this threat was to cause froth, and it's clear that as usual some people do not understand autism.

Keep your kids away from E-numbers and try to discipline them better! That will fix them.

I’m genuinely interested in discussing the impact the change in diagnostic criteria has had and am pleased that we’ve been able to avoid too much upset. I really think it’s only through discussion and understanding that anything is going to improve.

@BadNomad I don't think the spectrum is linear, I think people vary to each othet in different aspects/ traits but I do think that some are just constantly at the bad end of each trait.

Learning disability isn't caused by autism. It sits along side it as a completely diagnosis. Communication issues may it difficult to pull apart and assess as the tests aren't geared up for people on the spectrum.

Repetitive patterns are a part of autism, they're assessed for dx and are a trait. Ld isn't a trait neither is mh. If they were everyone with an autism dx would need to have those for a dx.

Speech delay I think is different because it could be not understanding communication, why communication is needed, why the other person isn't thinking the same, it could be a shutdown, it could be selective mutism or it could be verbal dyspraxia. I'm sure there are other things it could be too.

I can see how anxiety is effected by autism and I am trying to understand viewpoints and put mine across in a reasonable way.so please take this as discussion and not argument.

Keep your kids away from E-numbers and try to discipline them better! That will fix them.

That is only a very small part of this - I think we are trying to make sense of how we view ourselves, our children and relate to others.

@Itisbetter I'm sorry if I over reacted , I am very aware of not wanting to exclude people and it feels as though ND is a sort of breakaway from autism, which is interesting just because I'm trying to learn.