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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Barclays stole my money 😡

32 replies

BrokenBonesStixStones · 17/02/2023 15:10

Okay, I am just looking some opinions on this and wondering if it’s even worth my while pushing this any further. If anybody has any suggestions that would be great thank you.

I own a very small e-commerce business and use the Shopify platform, Shopify also manage the card payments etc

Just before Christmas, somebody placed an order and I, in good faith, fulfilled it. It wasn’t an exceptionally large amount, £17, it’s more the principal than anything. This order was not highlighted as high risk

(Shopify will flag any orders that are potentially fraudulent and then It is up to you to investigate and decide whether or not to continue with the order. If you do fulfill the order when it has been flagged high-risk your money for that sale is not protected if a customer opens a chargeback - that’s how it’s described on Shopify anyhow)

After Christmas, the customer opens the chargeback and their bank and Barclays/Shopify withdraw the £17 plus a £10 charge from my account. I appeal and show it has been sent, delivered etc. Their bank denies my appeal.

When I look at the order more closely, I see the delivery address and the billing address are quite a distance apart, so it appears that somebody has used the this persons card fraudulently.

I have contacted Shopify again and they have said the decision lies with Barclays, so if I go to Barclays I have to go in cold because I have no option left to appeal and all I can get is customer contact numbers.

So, AIBU in thinking that it’s not my problem, and I shouldn’t be penalised for it, surely it is the bank or Shopify’s security system that has failed both me and the ‘customer?’

While
£17 won’t make or break the business, the £10 on top is really cheeky imo makes me question what would happen if it was an order for £100 plus.

OP posts:
sweeneytoddsrazor · 17/02/2023 15:16

A different delivery address to billing address may not necessarily be fraudulent. I often order things to be sent to a different address from mine.

Original poster
BrokenBonesStixStones · 17/02/2023 15:27

sweeneytoddsrazor · 17/02/2023 15:16

A different delivery address to billing address may not necessarily be fraudulent. I often order things to be sent to a different address from mine.

@sweeneytoddsrazor love ur name lol.

I know what you mean, I do this too - although this is one of things that can cause Shopify to flag an order - maybe more goes into it than that

OP posts:
AllWorkYoPlait · 17/02/2023 15:27

sweeneytoddsrazor · 17/02/2023 15:16

A different delivery address to billing address may not necessarily be fraudulent. I often order things to be sent to a different address from mine.

This. My billing address and shipping address aren't always even in the same country, that's just to do with where the card is registered.

S72 · 17/02/2023 15:31

Make a complaint to Barclays then escalate to the Ombudsman if you remain unhappy. Search for the complaint contact online.

Thesaucysalad · 17/02/2023 15:49

I had the same yesterday, except for 9 orders from the same person, they then done a chargeback for them all, so I’m fined £90 even though I’ve done nothing wrong. It sucks

LaurieFairyCake · 17/02/2023 15:52

I wouldn't use Shopify again - did they even flag it as possibly fraudulent ?

Soakitup37 · 17/02/2023 15:53

Barclays haven’t stolen anything.

What do you mean you fulfilled the order in good faith? Did they not pay prior to making the order?

I’d be very surprised if it was stolen card details to make a sale for £17. The charge back wouldn’t have continued if it had been fraudulent anyway. So I think the sale was legit. Depending what you sold it maybe that the customer wanted a refund for goods rendered not sold as described?

if you dispute the payment or the amount raise it with Barclays fraud team to look into. You don’t sound like you’ve even approached barclays for help yet?

Dacadactyl · 17/02/2023 15:54

I suspect Barclays will refer you back to Shopify. If I understand what you're saying, it's Shopify your issue is with isn't it?

However, I would approach Barclays and say what you have said here and show proof you sent the order. If Barclays levied the 10 charge, I would ask them to refund this, plus extra for distress.

But if Shopify levied the ten pound charge, I think you'll be stuck between both of them bouncing you back and forth, but Shopify should be taking responsibility in my eyes.

Iknownononono · 17/02/2023 15:55

Soakitup37 · 17/02/2023 15:53

Barclays haven’t stolen anything.

What do you mean you fulfilled the order in good faith? Did they not pay prior to making the order?

I’d be very surprised if it was stolen card details to make a sale for £17. The charge back wouldn’t have continued if it had been fraudulent anyway. So I think the sale was legit. Depending what you sold it maybe that the customer wanted a refund for goods rendered not sold as described?

if you dispute the payment or the amount raise it with Barclays fraud team to look into. You don’t sound like you’ve even approached barclays for help yet?

I don’t think you’ve properly understood what OP has written at all.

MeganLogan · 17/02/2023 15:55

Assuming yoh have a business account with Barclays, heck yes I would pursue. They’re happy to take your monthly fee for their business account and they should be protecting small businesses like yours. You haven’t just lost the £10 dispute fee, you’ve lost the postage and your supplies. If it’s a handmade item then your time. Multiple of these would impact your profit margins.

HaroldTheStallion · 17/02/2023 15:56

Barclays stole from me also - a couple hundred pounds in my case which they wrongly assigned to an incorrect account and refused to fix. I will never bank with them again - total nightmare.

pinkySilver · 17/02/2023 15:59

The person who stole from you was whoever placed a fraudulent order and paid with a stolen card.

weightymatters73 · 17/02/2023 16:07

You have to follow some very specific steps to appeal a chargeback, including showing you have posted the parcel, the parcel has been delivered. (Experience has taught me to send ALL post recorded delivery). Also that the customer has passed all the 3Dsecure fraud checks.

Unfortunately if they have declined it you are too late - write it off to experience.

But if you can't do this then you may just need to charge more to allow for the inevitable chargebacks.

justasmalltownmum · 17/02/2023 16:12

Don't even have Barclays but this happens with Shopify.

Ultraninja · 17/02/2023 16:14

Soakitup37 · 17/02/2023 15:53

Barclays haven’t stolen anything.

What do you mean you fulfilled the order in good faith? Did they not pay prior to making the order?

I’d be very surprised if it was stolen card details to make a sale for £17. The charge back wouldn’t have continued if it had been fraudulent anyway. So I think the sale was legit. Depending what you sold it maybe that the customer wanted a refund for goods rendered not sold as described?

if you dispute the payment or the amount raise it with Barclays fraud team to look into. You don’t sound like you’ve even approached barclays for help yet?

You've misunderstood the situation.

Original poster
BrokenBonesStixStones · 17/02/2023 16:19

Yes I know Barclays haven’t actually stolen from me, the title is light hearted

i dont actually bank with Barclays, they are the bank that issues the card that has been used. Which is why it is more difficult to contact them? All I can see is their own customer details.

I really don’t think it was a case of the customer being unhappy with their purchase, their first contact would have been back to us in that case - in which It would have been refund or replacement. It’s not a handmade item or anything, I retail other brands in a “specialist” market. To my knowledge the bank asks to see proof of contact with business before a chargeback proceeds. I may be wrong but it seems like an abrupt escalation l.

i think the responsibility lies with Shopify and Barclays - Shopify didn’t flag it and Barclays security let it slide through

OP posts:
Original poster
BrokenBonesStixStones · 17/02/2023 16:20

@Thesaucysalad im so sorry, that really sucks 😡

OP posts:
pleasehelpwi3 · 17/02/2023 16:21

Ombudsman after you have exhausted complaints process. Banks often settle before this stage as even if they win, it costs them more in costs for smaller amounts such as this

FredPolice · 17/02/2023 16:24

YANBU on the grounds that Barclays are cunts. I speak from bitter experience.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 17/02/2023 16:33

I stopped selling bits and pieces on eBay for similar reasons. If the customer pays via PayPal they can report the item as not delivered and PayPal will remove the funds from the sellers’ account and refund them. This has happened to me twice where PayPal have refused to refund me even after I have shown proof of posting and delivery. PayPal and eBay will always side with the customer, even though they wouldn’t be in business if it wasn’t for sellers paying the fees. Sounds like Shopify have much the same policy, so maybe vote with your feet and don’t use them.

HundredMilesAnHour · 17/02/2023 16:36

FredPolice · 17/02/2023 16:24

YANBU on the grounds that Barclays are cunts. I speak from bitter experience.

Indeed they are. They're also often incompetent and some of their staff have questionable morals. I've never been a Barclays customer but I have worked in the industry and can't say anything more for confidentiality reasons other than I strongly advise people not to bank with Barclays. Especially not their business banking.

Molly499 · 17/02/2023 16:40

You are wasting your time and won’t win this. Chargebacks are a nightmare and it doesn’t matter how much proof you supply you will always lose as the banks just say NO and don’t care. I have provided proof of photo ID, proof of valid address, photo of credit card in the name of their person ordering, plus signed proof of delivery on several occasions and have lost every single time. Unfortunately there are some dishonest people out there who know how to scam the system and it just isn’t fair.

Molly499 · 17/02/2023 16:42

DotAndCarryOne2 · 17/02/2023 16:33

I stopped selling bits and pieces on eBay for similar reasons. If the customer pays via PayPal they can report the item as not delivered and PayPal will remove the funds from the sellers’ account and refund them. This has happened to me twice where PayPal have refused to refund me even after I have shown proof of posting and delivery. PayPal and eBay will always side with the customer, even though they wouldn’t be in business if it wasn’t for sellers paying the fees. Sounds like Shopify have much the same policy, so maybe vote with your feet and don’t use them.

I find PayPal to be totally fair and they always support the supplier provided you can prove that you supplied the right item and have proof of delivery, I have never lost a case. They also usually provide seller protection so even if it’s a grey area you will be refunded.

2bazookas · 17/02/2023 17:28

When I look at the order more closely, I see the delivery address and the billing address are quite a distance apart, so it appears that somebody has used the this persons card fraudulently.

Isn't comparing the delivery and billing addresses very basic security, which any business should check ?

Springnightstanddays · 17/02/2023 17:42

I had a similar scenario on EBay, where buyer bought an item, I posted it.
Few weeks later he opened paypal case that Transaction not recognised.
I immediately contacted EBay and added the tracking number, also I contacted the buyer, who said he received the item and it’s very happy with it, however the transaction seems dodgy to him £5)
Absolutely madness.
EBay said they can’t help as he opened paypal case and nothing to do with him, so sadly I will be penalised with £17 admin fee and also I have to refund him even he said he received the item and he likes it!
wtf!!!