To think there's massive age discrimination after 50

[Livelifelaughter]

My company recently made redundant some extremely competent experienced lawyers. All the ones below the age of 50 (40s)have got new jobs. None over 50 have even though they would accept the salary on offer to the 40 year olds.
Some have approached firms asking to retrain in other areas of law at a lower salary and have got no where even though many firms will re train women who have left for years to have families.
It seems very difficult to get a decent well paid job at 50 plus.

One problem is that many of the unfilled roles are unskilled low status minimum wage jobs, if you're in your 50s you don't want to put up with that unless you have to!
Hence Jeremy C-Hunt not having much luck getting retired people off the golf course!

I wonder whether the modern recruitment processes are also a factor. The days of sending your cv with a covering letter appear to be long gone. These days, it's all about online recruitment processes, online pyschometric tests/assessments, recording online presentations, live online interviews, etc. Perhaps younger candidates are able to "game" the online recruitment processes better than older ones, so more likely to get through the earlier/automated levels?

Not in my sector
we value people of any age - I have employees who are past retirement age and also school/college leavers on apprenticeships
Personally I’ve had more opportunities from 50+ than when I was in my 30s and 40s, I’ve also found the gender gap lessens

I'm not saying if they don't exist but they aren't socially acceptable like ageism is.

If you think we have problems with racism I suggest you live abroad because any other country I have been to has been far more racist

Yeah or they're like me and think "can't be bothered" and stay freelancing or whatever. I got my current job by word of mouth. The younger staff have to jump through ridiculous hoops to get into my firm though.

This is most definitely a factor! Having multiple stage recruitment processes that come across as though they were hatched by tech bros.

@Passivhaus You think ethnic minorities in this country should thank their lucky stars they are just about tolerated because elsewhere it would be much worse. Ok.

I still here a lot of ageist comments in my workplace. My boss is a women and suggests she is really into equality but recently did a whole team presentation where she said what we need is more youthful enterprise in our team. At my appraisal I wanted to talk about career progression she mentioned early retirement...

I thought original comment more meant that overt racism/sexism in professional workplaces is less common and less tolerated than ageism. It seems like people would still feel comfortable to openly discuss not hiring someone due to age/how near retirement they are where they would be a lot less direct about other prejudices they may have.

It applies to both sexes, not just women.
I know some men in their fifties who have applied for a lot of jobs and have never even heard back from the companies they've applied to, much less got an interview.
They work out your age from the dates of education on the CV/ application.
It's disgraceful.

No, employers do try to do something about racism and sexism. Not so ageism.

Not in my sector or in other sectors I know off. Lots of places can't recruit social workers, doctors, psychologists, solicitors etc. these roles rely on experience.

I'm 52 and applied for an alternative professional job in my field with a different company.

The initial hurdle came up in the first informal phone conversation about the role when I got asked 'I probably shouldn't say this but when do you plan to retire'.

That's the trouble it's being thought of over 50 as you're already at upper end of pay scale and companies want to know how long they will retain you (despite the fact that many younger candidates won't intend to stay in a role more than a few years anyway). It's suddenly made me aware that I'm viewed close to retirement age!

If someone asked me when I expected to retire I'd just say "the retirement age is 67, likely to rise to 68 for my age group. That's nearly 20 years."

(Probably wouldn't get the job, but it might at least challenge their assumptions a bit)

Although thinking about it, it's a hugely risky thing to ask - definitely a breach of good interview practice to avoid discrimination claims. It's a bit like asking a woman if she plans to have kids.

Interesting OP. Do you think that the lawyers who were made redundant were discriminated against in the redundancy process too?

YYou say that they were "willing to take the salaries on offer to the 40 year olds"- does that suggest that you/they ideally would have wanted higher salaries? Only I think that in law, while salary does tend to keep going up in line with PQE, it does hit a ceiling where, say 15 years' PQE is worth the same as 20 and more (assuming non-partner). The differentiating factors would be more around client following or very niche expertise, not simple time served.

Have any of them thought about becoming PSLs (more commonly "knowledge lawyers" these days)? That is a role where long experience commands a premium. We were recently disappointed when a woman in her early sixties turned down a role.

Point to where I said that.

This is what you wrote which frankly is astonishing:

"If you think we have problems with racism I suggest you live abroad because any other country I have been to has been far more racist"

I recruit lawyers and have candidates in their 60s who are in demand. However I used to recruit support staff and there was definitely ageism from employers.

Whereas I'm 52 and in a senior role but having to cover up how badly I'm suffering with menopause symptoms because it will put a spotlight on my age and that's the sort of attention that could put my job at risk.

NHS here and as most jobs in my specialty get no applicants at all, I could walk into any job I fancy aged 61. But they have pissed me off once too often so I have resigned and very much doubt I will work for the NHS again. Another one bites the dust! I will still be able to get plenty of private work though.

54 here and got promoted at 53 (in a male dominated industry). I also don’t like the focus on menopausal symptoms as it echos the prejudices around women who are having families. I feel lucky I was given the chance, although I was highly suited to the job. If I became disenchanted with the role I’d seek out a similar one elsewhere.

Really enjoying it and have no major plans to retire, although I could. 😀 It’s paid daycare!

Ageism definitely exists. It is especially difficult if you have been in one field all your life. But if you have worked in different fields e.g. finance, civil service etc then it is more easier. As someone close to 30, the advice that I was given by older colleagues, family members is to not stick in one career all your life except in some exceptions e.g. being a doctor that job will never be made redundant there will always be demand for that. I have seen people get discriminated due to age which always baffles me cause it is discrimination. I have also seen people in their 50s learn new careers in a short period of time and thrive e.g. cyber security, coding etc..

Thank you for your reply. I suspect there was an element of discrimination albeit possibly subconscious if I am being generous. I agree with your point about salaries plateauing, my point being that from a cost basis it doesn't cost a firm more to recruit an older person. I know former colleagues have been told that they are "too experienced" meaning I suspect that their recruitment would upset the junior lawyers working towards partnership.

Ageism is a nightmare and amazing how some law firms get away with it. I think we all see it but thankfully it's the complete opposite in my field of engineering. The older you get, the more valuable you are and I've seen old fogies end up in upper management or technical specialist roles. Many go contracting and command higher rates than advertised due to experience. I've known contractors still going well into their 70's and on top rates.

Sorry if this sounds like an advert for engineering but we have a distinct lack of female representation! No lack of female intelligence but just a lack of interest ☹️