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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Have I been mislead? Help

51 replies

trustfall · 16/02/2023 17:12

I posted in legal matters but there's not much traffic so shamelessly posting on here.

Hi everyone. I will try to keep this short but I want to make sure every details is in here to make it as factual as possible to see if we have a leg to stand on legally.

We live in a private rented property and have done for just over a year. We are good clean tenants and have never had any complaints. In January we renewed our tenancy. The landlord increased our rent. Not by masses, but by enough to make things tight, but we accepted it as we were happy here.
A week later we are told the house was going on the market and that the estate agents will be in touch to take photos and arrange viewings etc. This all happened very quickly, and the house was on the market in just over a week after renewing our tenancy.

I have cancer and have been undergoing treatment and multiple surgeries, which the EA and landlord are aware of. When we were told the house was going on the market, the email specifically says 'the landlord is happy for you to stay in situ until a sale has been agreed. If an exchange has not been made by then, your tenancy will roll onto a periodic.
Due to this, we, rightly or wrongly, started to look for somewhere to live straight away as we didn't want to live on a knife edge here not knowing when we'd have to move, and have people traipsing in whilst my health is vulnerable. So we thought we'd get out and find somewhere. Which we have now done.

We served our 2 months notice and it has been declined, saying as the house hasn't been sold yet, we are liable to pay the rent until the end of tenancy in June. I thought this was desperately unfair, as in the email (which has now been admitted was poorly worded by the EA) that the landlord is happy for us to stay in situ until the point of sale, which we read, as if that happened before the tenancy was up, they'd serve us notice of 2 months and we would leave. So it would be only fair we could do the same.

I feel like I have totally been mislead here, as not only has the rent increased, but they renewed our tenancy, asking for more money a month, knowing they were selling. But tied us into the contract so we had to carry on paying rent until they reach a sale. The viewings that have happened so far are families and and no investors. I have been incredibly fair with viewings. I have to shield for a week during my treatment and when viewings are being done, I go and sit in my car, DH does a quick clean and if they've opened doors and touched things he wipes them down, and I come back in.

I know we don't have to accept viewings, but if we don't, and we don't get a sale agreed, we'll have to pay rent here. As well as our new place which we move into this weekend.

I feel like we have been totally mislead. Had we have known the house was going on the market days after renewing our tenancy, we of course wouldn't have renewed.

Do we have any leg to stand on legally? We are still moving. The whole thing is causing us so much stress. But I'm trying to work out if we could get any legal advice to not pay the rent here too until June or to break the clause early. And the real kicker is the landlord has done the reference for us to move out, and is now saying we have to stay until June! We just feel like it's such a misrepresentation and have been totally mislead here. We signed the tenancy to live here peacefully, not waiting for a house to sell at any point and for us to deliberately not be told this until we have renewed the tenancy.
We have a 12 month contract with 6 month break clause in June.

AIBU to think we've been mislead and this is really unfair?

Thank you. Any advice will be ever so appreciated

OP posts:
Coldilox · 16/02/2023 18:34

I would inform the landlord that if he intends to make you stick to the tenancy, from now on you will be refusing all viewings. And you will not be moving out prior to the end of the tenancy, regardless of whether a sale is agreed or not.

This May be enough to get him to release you from the contract.

trustfall · 16/02/2023 19:39

Hankunamatata · 16/02/2023 18:34

Morally wrong, the landlord is trying to have cake amd eat it by renewing tenancy before putting it up for sale. Sadly I don't think you have any come back and will have to pay until June. A good landlord would have let you break contract or put you on a rolling contract

I know. I'm clutching at straws but I'm hoping he ends up letting us do this. We physically can't afford to pay rent until June :(

OP posts:
trustfall · 16/02/2023 23:30

What would happen if we didn't pay the remaining rent until June?

We physically can't afford to. We are totally stumped. This just seems so unfair. I know my health problems aren't the landlords fault but I tried to do the right thing by clearing the house to maximise viewings by removing myself whilst going through chemotherapy by finding somewhere else. And also on the pretence of the email stating the landlord is 'happy for us to remain in situ until a point of sale.' What happens if a sale is agreed next week? We can't just wait around and the landlord gets the best of both worlds. But the bottom line is we can't pay until June. We have no way of doing it. Absolutely none. (One income at the moment due to me being on sick leave until summer at least)

OP posts:
NigellaAwesome · 16/02/2023 23:45

Is the deposit properly protected and was it placed in the scheme within timescales? If not, that could be some leverage to negotiate with.

I second going to Shelter for advice. I'm not legally qualified, but surely the timings of your contract and placing the property on the market show bad faith on the part of the landlord?

Sparklfairy · 17/02/2023 04:56

trustfall · 16/02/2023 23:30

What would happen if we didn't pay the remaining rent until June?

We physically can't afford to. We are totally stumped. This just seems so unfair. I know my health problems aren't the landlords fault but I tried to do the right thing by clearing the house to maximise viewings by removing myself whilst going through chemotherapy by finding somewhere else. And also on the pretence of the email stating the landlord is 'happy for us to remain in situ until a point of sale.' What happens if a sale is agreed next week? We can't just wait around and the landlord gets the best of both worlds. But the bottom line is we can't pay until June. We have no way of doing it. Absolutely none. (One income at the moment due to me being on sick leave until summer at least)

'Point of sale' is also open to interpretation. Sales fall through, and even if it doesn't, the process from offer to completion takes anywhere for six weeks to six months, so what is the point when the LL releases you from the contract? It leaves you in total limbo while he sits back and gets rent until he chooses.

In answer to your question, if you move out and pay no further rent, the LL will put in a claim with the court for the remaining rent until June - so £1450 x 4? It will take a while, not least because you'll have moved and he'll need to find you to send you the paperwork, but he will.

At this point, you can put in a defence. You submit your evidence, particularly the email that says, 'as the house hasn't been sold yet, [you] are liable to pay the rent until the end of tenancy in June.' You also mention your cancer treatment and the upheaval of viewings but that you have been very accommodating, the disruption of isolating in your car etc. The law does not require you to have ANY viewings, regardless of what the contract says, so you've shown goodwill.

Contract terms are unfair 'if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it
causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising
under the contract' < say you believe the contract terms to be unfair because you were obligated to pay until June, but were left in a position where you didn't know if you were going to be served notice at any moment if the house was sold.

I'd also add that because of the unpredictable and very competitive post-Covid rental market, you had no choice but to find another tenancy to stablise your housing situation, especially considering your health issues.

Make sure you make it very clear about the timing of being given the new tenancy agreement, and being informed the house was going on the market - highlighting the discrepancy between the LL's obligations and your own, and the LL received benefits and security that the same contract does not give you.

In fact, I've written all that at almost 5am with only half a coffee and it's more likely to me now that it won't get to this stage. If you write to the EA with a reworded version of my 'defence' and a polite but firm request that the LL reconsiders releasing you from the contract, you lay out your intentions to defend any court action and show you actually know what you're talking about, but suggests you're both reasonable people who can work it out without needing court.

You can use any replies from the EA obviously for further evidence should LL pursue it anyway.

DaveyJonesLocker · 17/02/2023 05:26

They're bang out of order. I'd take my chances. They've sold off their properties, are they really going to waste their time chasing a few grand off a cancer patient.

gazpachosoupday · 17/02/2023 06:00

Honestly in your situation, I would get a loan for the remaining rent and then refuse all access.

I would do this for a few reasons, I wouldnt risk going to court on it, it sounds brilliant but if you have good credit rating it will risk that, you also risk any further rentals and its such a shitty market at the moment, I wouldnt do that.

I would refuse all new viewings, just to piss the landlord off. If I was paying for it I would be very annoying.

You could put it that way to the estate agent or the landlord, that if they insist you keep to the terms of the contract than you will no longer allow any new viewings and regardless of whether you are there or not, its your right if you are paying for the property.

DungareeDana · 17/02/2023 06:46

Honestly in your situation, I would get a loan for the remaining rent and then refuse all access.

This is her real life though, not a game. She's not trying to win or prove a point.

To get a loan out to pay £1450 a month until June is not the answer here.

yodayoga1 · 17/02/2023 07:37

OP, have you already signed a contract for the new property? If not, I'd do exactly as PP have suggested. Tell the LL that he is leaving you no other financial option but to refuse viewings and stay firmly put until end of tenancy, regardless of sale.

This will make it almost impossible for him to get a sale agreed until you've moved out. Since timescales between sale agreed and sale completed can take months, he's then staring down the barrel of a property sitting empty for months anyway. So he can either suck that up or agree to release you from the tenancy early.

There are some people who just don't 'do' reasonable so you have to stop trying to reason with them and fight fire with a little fire. Horribly stressful with your cancer treatment ongoing but I suspect this is your quickest route to a resolution.

trustfall · 17/02/2023 07:41

@Sparklfairy

Thank you so very much for this. I'm going to do exactly this. You have been so helpful, this is what I'm going to do today. Thank you SO much!

OP posts:
Sparklfairy · 17/02/2023 07:46

trustfall · 17/02/2023 07:41

@Sparklfairy

Thank you so very much for this. I'm going to do exactly this. You have been so helpful, this is what I'm going to do today. Thank you SO much!

Best of luck with it. Please update the thread if you can! Flowers

BillyMack · 17/02/2023 07:58

The “the email stating the landlord is 'happy for us to remain in situ until a point of sale.'” bit is a misnomer. The landlord wouldn’t be able to force you out of the house and would struggle to complete without vacant possession.

They may have asked you to leave but you would be within your rights to stay.

I’m with a PP, if the landlord doesn’t want to let you end your tenancy then they don’t get the opportunity to show prospective buyers around. I’d change the locks (but keep the originals to change back) and not allow them any visits.

Ultraninja · 17/02/2023 08:00

Op, you would benefit from running your next course of action past Shelter before doing anything. Good luck!

Ultraninja · 17/02/2023 08:02

Also - you don’t have to allow any access for viewings etc, regardless of anything in the contract. Speak to Shelter. MN advice can be dodgy.

Sparklfairy · 17/02/2023 08:05

BillyMack · 17/02/2023 07:58

The “the email stating the landlord is 'happy for us to remain in situ until a point of sale.'” bit is a misnomer. The landlord wouldn’t be able to force you out of the house and would struggle to complete without vacant possession.

They may have asked you to leave but you would be within your rights to stay.

I’m with a PP, if the landlord doesn’t want to let you end your tenancy then they don’t get the opportunity to show prospective buyers around. I’d change the locks (but keep the originals to change back) and not allow them any visits.

Because of the way this has played out it isn't a misnomer anymore. OP was pushed into finding alternative housing purely because of this email. The information given to her by the EA was 'UNTIL the point of sale', giving OP the impression that her housing situation was precarious.

They've since backtracked, presumably in writing, and admitted it was 'badly worded' - keep that evidence too OP.

They should have outlined exactly what the process would be if the house sold before June, i.e. it will be sold with a sitting tenant and you will still be able to stay there until June.

As they did not, it works in OP's favour, supports the reasons behind her actions, and strengthens her defence. And if the LL loses out financially because of the EA's 'poorly worded' email, that's his problem to take up with them.

MsMcGonagall · 17/02/2023 08:28

gazpachosoupday · 17/02/2023 06:00

Honestly in your situation, I would get a loan for the remaining rent and then refuse all access.

I would do this for a few reasons, I wouldnt risk going to court on it, it sounds brilliant but if you have good credit rating it will risk that, you also risk any further rentals and its such a shitty market at the moment, I wouldnt do that.

I would refuse all new viewings, just to piss the landlord off. If I was paying for it I would be very annoying.

You could put it that way to the estate agent or the landlord, that if they insist you keep to the terms of the contract than you will no longer allow any new viewings and regardless of whether you are there or not, its your right if you are paying for the property.

if your strongly worded email route doesn't work, then I think this loan idea is better than the worry and risk of going to court. You can set a length where the money payments are doable.

MaireadMcSweeney · 17/02/2023 08:32

Why can't you just stay until June and refuse viewings? You don't have to allow them, especially given you're immunocompromised.

gazpachosoupday · 17/02/2023 08:35

DungareeDana · 17/02/2023 06:46

Honestly in your situation, I would get a loan for the remaining rent and then refuse all access.

This is her real life though, not a game. She's not trying to win or prove a point.

To get a loan out to pay £1450 a month until June is not the answer here.

you think going to court is? With the possibility of getting a CCJ? And then if in a year's time they have to find another property to rent?

billyt · 17/02/2023 08:43

As others have said.

I'd change the locks, keeping the originals. Totally legal and you then control who can access your property. None of this 'thought I could smell gas so forced my way in' crap.
I'd refuse all viewings. Again totally legal as it doesn't matter what the contract says it can't over-ride the law.
I would also enforce the fact that I will then stay until I decide to leave (usual eviction procedures notwithstanding)

Make it clear you will make life as difficult a you can, just like he is trying to do to you.

I don't have a problem with Landlords in general, only the fuckers who want their cake and to eat it. (or really shit on their tenants)

And good luck with your health struggles, shit like this doesn't help.

Im99912 · 17/02/2023 08:44

If you have to keep paying the rent then I wouldn’t allow any viewings or be very very very difficult about it . Ie due to my health issues I will only allow viewings on xxx day between xx - xxx time 😂
you have a right to quiet enjoyment of your flat so fuck em

and if you already have a place then you don’t need to worry about securing someone to live so I wouldn’t do anything that will help the landlord no surveyors no last minute viewings I wouldn’t do anything

See how he likes it when he can’t get any one to view before June

Goingforasong · 17/02/2023 08:49

Kazplus2 · 16/02/2023 18:06

Landlord here. I would advise landlord that if you don't move now then you would intend to remain until the end of your contract, regardless of any sale he makes. You are entitled to do this and he will have to sell with a sitting tennant. It may be enough to make him compromise. My understanding is that you are entitled to quiet enjoyment of your property meaning that you can refuse viewings. In my opinion a landlord wishing a tenant to accommodate viewings should be reducing the rent to account for disruption.

I think this is the best advice on the thread. Having been in the same position as a landlord, I was very grateful that my tenants moved out early so I could sell at a higher price with vacant possession.

Boomboomboomboom · 17/02/2023 09:00

I think in your communication I would be minded to mention the Equality Act 2010 and the duties the landlord has to you as a disabled person under s13, 15, 19, 20 and 35 of the Act and say that you were naturally mislead by the communications from the solicitor, that for your health you cannot contemplate 6+ months of viewings and the risks this brings, and any claim for the lost rent will be defended on that basis and discrimination/failure to make reasonable adjustments.

Shelter/legal advice desk should be able to help you construct a letter.

It's very complex, and I'm not sure any defence would have any merit, bit it might be enough to make them stop and think and agree something.

trustfall · 25/02/2023 13:23

A little update.

I've looked through our tenancy agreement and it says the landlord cannot advertise / erect ANY for sale signs until the last 2 months of the tenancy.

Our last 2 months are May & June. The advertisement / signage went up in January. Could I use this to our advantage that he's broken the agreement here? Or am I clutching at straws.
Thank you!

OP posts:
trustfall · 25/02/2023 13:24

Boomboomboomboom · 17/02/2023 09:00

I think in your communication I would be minded to mention the Equality Act 2010 and the duties the landlord has to you as a disabled person under s13, 15, 19, 20 and 35 of the Act and say that you were naturally mislead by the communications from the solicitor, that for your health you cannot contemplate 6+ months of viewings and the risks this brings, and any claim for the lost rent will be defended on that basis and discrimination/failure to make reasonable adjustments.

Shelter/legal advice desk should be able to help you construct a letter.

It's very complex, and I'm not sure any defence would have any merit, bit it might be enough to make them stop and think and agree something.

I took this to my notes also, and gave this to a solicitor who thinks we have a very strong case should it go to court, so thank you for that. It's really helpful.

Shelter have also been awesome. They're the ones who helped be find out the above information about advertising and for sale signs that have been broken on the LLs behalf.

OP posts:
NigellaAwesome · 25/02/2023 20:18

trustfall · 25/02/2023 13:23

A little update.

I've looked through our tenancy agreement and it says the landlord cannot advertise / erect ANY for sale signs until the last 2 months of the tenancy.

Our last 2 months are May & June. The advertisement / signage went up in January. Could I use this to our advantage that he's broken the agreement here? Or am I clutching at straws.
Thank you!

I'm not a lawyer, but I suppose you could state that given these are the terms of your contract, the landlord has by erecting for sale signs / advertising & having viewings, in effect triggered the 2 months notice period.