Anyone well versed in end of life care?

[Tiddlywinx]

backstory: 2 very close relatives passed away in hospital. Mother is adamant the hospital, drs nurses etc killed them or at least sped up the process. She now has a friend who is sadly eol due to cancer, she’s now started saying ( I really hope not to the family) that the hospital has started to withdraw meds and fluids in an effort to hurry things along.

as she’s said this a lot, it’s quite upsetting (in relation to my family members and in general). When my relative was slipping away my mother heavily emphasised they were being deprived of resources to hasten the process, I recall talking to an ITU consultant and he said there’s no evidence that withholding fluid or food in EoL improves anything so they give patients food or fluid if they want it, but often they don’t and sometimes it’s not safe. I feel like I read something about and EoL patients often because quite water heavy? And adding fluid to that can make them more uncomfortable and making breathing more difficult? Could someone explain it to me please? I don’t quite understand and don’t have anyone to explain in RL.

please be gentle, thank you

I am currently going through this with my mum. She hasn't eaten now for weeks. We are in the 7th week of her only drinking small amounts and not eating. These links have been very helpful so thankyou for those of you who have shared the info. I now know not to try and get her to drink

jellymaker I’m so sorry that you’re going through this, I can’t imagine how hard it must be …

Sorry, should also say of course for everybody else that has also gone through this.

There's not much you can do apart from tell her very firmly to wind her neck in. Ask her does she wish to traumatise the family and what good does she expect to gain from behavinh like this? Tell her it's not about her and she is massively selfish.

A month ago I was involved in a relatives eol. My SIL had a degenerative disease. She had no comprehension that she was alive, was only four stone. She developed major deterioration and was taken to hospital. The palliative care team told my DB that this was the only option. DB went crazy, yelling that they were trying to kill her, insisting that she was fed and given fluids and instructing medical negligence lawyers. It was distressing for the staff and the rest of the family. I travelled to the hospital to find DSIL was basically drowning. I was frank with DB and told him that she could die unpleasantly from drowning as she was struggling to breathe or let the PC team ease her suffering by sedating her. Finally he agreed and she slipped away a couple of days later. The consultant thanked me for intervening, but DB still has a conspiracy theory that hospitals are deliberately killing the elderly by withdrawing food and drink. There's not much you can do about entrenched views.

I think a combination of what @bobbytorq said and maybe some counselling by a priest/trusted medical professional (if she actually trusts any of us) about what happens in the dying process, or even some YouTube videos might be needed.
Otherwise, just let her know that the family will be managing it all without her input to make everything even more stressful than it needs to be.

This is such an important topic. I carry a fair amount of guilt around both my DM's and my DF's deaths, in terms of their care in the final 24 hrs, which I've not even begun to deal with or talk to anyone at all about. DM died 10 years ago. I can't bring myself to read the full thread, but am increasingly aware that understanding the process of death properly might help me. Thank you for the links. X

@allnewname I actually think it would help you (when you are ready of course.)
My parent’s deaths were traumatic for - reasons - and as well as that, the choices they made based on outdated information and preconceived ideas. When they made those choices, they genuinely felt that they were making the right choices for themselves and maintaining control of their final days/weeks/months and were empowering the best medical choices. It wasn’t the case though. If we can demystify the process and show you how genuinely personal and empathetic the CARE process can be (the human side) maybe it will be less frightening for you and you can forgive yourself.
I really do recommend Nurse Julie on YouTube for you as well. Big hugs

Ah thank you @Fraaahnces

It was difficult for us as we were initially under the impression my father was going to have chemotherapy. Then it became clear that he was being “helped on his way” as DM described it…. I wish the doctors had told us what was happening, or perhaps we were in so much shock that it didn’t really sink in at the time.

I am sorry for your loss. I can empathise with this. My DM (83) was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer a fortnight before she died. Within that time we had hope that a stent might unblock the blockage in her bile duct for a while, but the attempt failed, so EOLC began. All very quick, and quite shocking.

I "speak the language" so understood the situation and process well, but my DB was blindsided. The medical and nursing staff, and latterly the care home staff, were utterly brilliant and communicated very well from my point of view, but without me to translate and guide my DB he would have really struggled.

I think understanding the dying process is a core life skill that is best learned well ahead of it happening to a loved one.

Sorry, on "helped on his way", I think this is an unhelpful way of phrasing it (not accusing you, PP). "Eased his passing" is more accurate, I think? The meds are just enough to alleviate the most distressing symptoms. There may be an element of reducing those last hours by some minutes, as a side effect, but it's not the primary intention.

Anyone who has witnessed terminal agitation would not wish that on any one.

FIL was taken off all sustaining life support including fluids at the end, they said to speed it up. He took around 7 days to die and it was very distressing for the family. But they have sedation going on so he wasn’t aware of anything. Very sad. When my own dad was dying of lung disease they prescribed the sedative for at home if needed, but in the end his heart gave up and he didn’t need to be sedated