to refuse to take responsibility for student with anorexia nervosa?

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Leading on from discussion on another thread, this situation came up in my teaching career recently. I had a year 10 tutor group in a girls school, and was asked to undertake training on AN, to support one of my tutees.

I did attend the training, but did not complete it. It was "in person" in that I attended a central location where a trainer displayed power points and was available for questioning. It took a couple of hours, and I left before it was completed. The reason I left ( as did others) was because we felt that the whole thing was an exercise in passing The Buck to us, under the pretence that we were somehow prepared, able and competent to give medical support in the absence of any other medical support being available.

The training wasn't just AN, it was also other serious conditions, such as suicidal depression, OCD, body dysmorphia, etc

Some of the content was interesting and potentially helpful, but it was quite shocking, the feeling that we were going to be left in the lurch, not with our little bit of knowledge and understanding just improving feelings of welcome and acceptance for our charges, but somehow responsible for them medically.

I think parents have a very limited idea of what teacher training about medical issues consist of. I have over my career trained in more than 60 medical conditions, but nothing like this, in the past I have learnt danger signs like "if a child with asthma cant complete a sentence without drawing breath, call an ambulance". Or "try painting the wall that a child with ASD is facing blank pale pink, it might help" - or " a child with CP may work better on a vertical surface not a horizontal one" etc

not medical management, and not absolutes, just guidelines for safety and things to try only

I did not complete it, and did not allow my name to be recorded as having attended.

I still stand by that - a run through of a few power points does not make me a safely knowledgeable and qualified person for a child with AN to rely on

AIBU?

Sorry I don’t believe this happened. There is no way anybody working with Anorexia would tell school staff to weigh, measure waists or restrict water. Cahms wouldn’t do the last two themselves. Schools just aren’t expected to take responsibility with AN. If they are ill and under Cahms it is their responsibility. If they are waiting the GP would be doing weight and liaising with services. So either way school staff would never be expected to weigh or take responsibility and nobody would ever do the other two.

As others have said it was an awareness course the op has decided to twist which is really shit. Families going through this have enough stress without threads trying to dredge up resentment. There is enough stigma with the illness.Op you clearly need training on the subject but a different course.

I've reported this thread as it could be triggering and also contains some of the tactics those with AN use to cheat the scales. That's dangerous!

Hi OP, I believe this happened in a MAT. I don't think people on the outside generally realise how dodgy those organisations can be. Sadly, I don't think they even do it intentionally most of the time - they're run by relatively very young, inexperienced staff.

I think you did the right thing and if you haven't already, you should contact Ofsted and BEAT and tell them the name of the course provider and the nature of your concerns.

If what you are saying is accurate - and I have no reason to disbelieve- I am shocked you didn’t report the crap outta this.
They suggested dangerous interventions and the misinformation they gave you is harmful and therefore, that makes it very unusual.

Becoming competent enough to take responsibility means more than an online course where you watch some videos and take a quiz. If my child needed help managing a medical condition I would want better training and support than this.

I feel for the poster’s son with T1 diabetes, but teachers being responsible for keeping an eye on that condition, whilst also managing a class of 30 others, including the violent children, the disruptive children and so on, let alone actually teaching, it’s not fair on the class, the teacher or the pupil

In which case, children with medical health needs cannot be in school, then? Is that what you're saying? Because someone needs to have had training and be available. A school unable to provide that is going to fi s themselves on the wrong end of a discrimination lawsuit but aside from that, what do you suggest? It's a serious health condition affecting hundreds of.thousa ds of people up and.down the country. People who, with an education, are useful members of society, tax payers potential high earners of the future. Who is going to actually take responsibility if not school staff?

I am a teacher. I understand the comexities of this from a teacher's perspective but we are basically writing off the education of.thousnads with a shrug of the shoulders and a not my problem. All children deserve the best education possible. No exceptions.

Yes, you’re being unreasonable.

You’re responsible for a load of kids and always need to learn too, especially if you have those with medical conditions in your group. Would you leave half way through a first aid course, or didn’t you bother doing that either?

..and you lot are wittering for a pay rise. Couldn’t make it up. 🙄

I wouldn’t want school to manage my daughter’s anorexia, CAMHs wouldn’t. School wouldn’t need to. She has an Ed team and prior to that a GP and parents. If she is well enough to be at school she will be and school doesn’t need to do anything. If she isn’t as decided by a doctor she’ll be at home.

Schools are not asked to “manage” or treat Anorexia. OP was not asked to take responsibility weigh, measure or restrict water. She was simply asked to familiarise herself with the condition. She has instead decided to whip up a load of resentment. How lovely for struggling children who are entitled to an education the same as everybody else.

Please name the charity and the course op as if they are telling school staff to do the things you say it needs to be looked into. I wouldn’t want my daughter at a school where she is forcefully and pointlessly weighed by staff, has her waist measured and her water restricted. She has suffered enough trauma as it is.

I agree. We are not even allowed to stick an elastoplast on them or issue a paracetamol. As for anorexia, there's no way the authorities would expect all this measuring done because.firstly, comlex issues have to be dealt with by medical people and secondly giving any kind of treatment would make us liable if it went wrong. The advice on the handling of anorexia is , as Aegean Blue, pointed out, entirely wrong. You never ever feed an anorexic's obsession with their weight or any other measurement.
If anything alarming about a child's health should come to our attention, you get the school nurse involved and parents and then if necessary mental health practitioners.

Don't be ridiculous.

Would you go to a doctor and expect him to teach your child to read? Teachers are paid to teach, they are not medical professionals and neither should they be.

Teachers have enough to do with actual teaching. They should not be forced into medical jobs to save the LA money. If there are medical needs to be met then there should be a medically qualified person there to do it.

If you'd bothered to read the thread you would know that teachers do refuse to do first aid training as there isn't extra cash involved and it's a big responsibility for no extra reward.

I can entirely believe a TA was expected to manage a condition such as AN in the current environment.

WRT disability discrimination- if it’s a complex health condition that would require effectively nursing staff (or medical training to manage) as it’s far outside a teacher’s expected competency, then they will argue that it is not a reasonable adjustment to provide that level of staffing or expertise, and if it’s a complex health need it should be covered in an EHCP. I totally agree that all children deserve a good education but in the current environment frankly many children are lucky to get a qualified teacher.

But schools wouldn’t need to do anything bar meal supports in a few circumstances if unable to be done by parents or Cahms. There is nothing to manage. Awareness is needed and logging on CPOMs if there are safeguarding incidents but you’d that for any child.

YABU you are not being asked to be medically responsible for anyone, that is the role of the specialists. You were being given training so that you could understand the condition better and to signpost where necessary or to flag concerns. Surely you would want to be able to support any student and I am rather shocked that you did not at least fully educate yourself and complete the training.

No you shouldn't be expected to mange this condition but I think you should be aware of this. It's very hard to spot and it's difficult to manage even by health professionals. Even doctors have often got it wrong.

The training should be there to help support you in referring to the right person or service or to have conversations with the pupil or parents.

I think YBWU.
I don’t think anybody would consider it your responsibility to treat her of keep her safe.
They probably just want to make sure that everyone who has major contact with YP with such issues has some knowledge about how to be helpful (and not unhelpful).

Better to note that this is usually the sole responsibility of somebody who also mans reception as part of being 'First Aider', so on far, far less than even the ECTs.

A first aider is not responsible for weighing a child measuring their waist and checking their teeth this is the role of a Dr, a dentist and a team of mental health professionals. If you do think a first aider does these things I think your getting incredibly confused about what was expected of you from this training.

You did the right thing. I'm a qualified psychologist and I refer out to a specialist for eating disorders when they come up in any serious measure in my practice. It's an incredibly delicate area and notoriously dangerous when we get it wrong. We simply can't manage such an insidious condition as an 'add on' to other issues. I'm not in the UK, but I'm pretty shocked that teachers were expected to handle any facet of medical care. Space for safety behaviours is one thing. Managing dental health, feeding regimes, weight and body monitoring is absolutely not within a teacher's remit.

Op says the training instructed them to measure waist size, weigh the student for example.

She has not clarified that she was actually told to do that or given the name of the charity telling her to do that. It has been pointed out numerous times she would never be asked to do that. Why would she be asked to do either? 1 would only be done by professionals at specific times the other would never be done as a)tgere is zero point and b) it would be hugely triggering.

I think you might be confused. I meant the admin is usually responsible for the care of students with medical conditions in school rather than teachers, who have the advantage of their unions saying 'no fucking way'.

Admin may be aware of the students different medical conditions but im sure their not weighing them, measuring their waists and checking their teeth. That's literally like a gp receptionist doing a patients physical it would never happen. I'm off to the dentist next week is the receptionist their going to check my teeth before I see the dentist

No but my last GP surgery had HCPs working on reception on a rota and most dental practices seem to have their nurses doing similar. My point is that beyond the provisions of a funded EHCP, it won't be the teachers providing first aid, medication, monitoring and dealing with emergencies/providing supervision and safety for those with emotional/MH needs/making the decision to call an ambulance/performing CPR/using defibs/controlling the situation in a medical emergency, it'll be the first aider doing that for about £1400/pcm and all the teacher has to do is send them to medical.

Admin staff are clearly underpaid but I'm not sure why your issue seems to be with the teacher, who can't exactly do all those things whilst teaching the other 29ish pupils?

No issue with the teacher - it just needs to be known that it isn't the teacher who ends up with responsibility in reality, it's borne by somebody else on less than half the salary. And they don't have a right to training at all past the first aid certificate in their contracts, so a school can instruct them that they're wholly responsible under the 'any other duties' banner.

It's unfair for people to be saying 'teachers shouldn't have to do this, it's not their job' when in reality, it really isn't, it's somebody who would have been subject to disciplinary measures had they walked out of a training (not that they'd usually get much anyhow) or tried refusing. Which is even more of a scandal in my opinion.