to refuse to take responsibility for student with anorexia nervosa?

[Nimbostratus100]

Leading on from discussion on another thread, this situation came up in my teaching career recently. I had a year 10 tutor group in a girls school, and was asked to undertake training on AN, to support one of my tutees.

I did attend the training, but did not complete it. It was "in person" in that I attended a central location where a trainer displayed power points and was available for questioning. It took a couple of hours, and I left before it was completed. The reason I left ( as did others) was because we felt that the whole thing was an exercise in passing The Buck to us, under the pretence that we were somehow prepared, able and competent to give medical support in the absence of any other medical support being available.

The training wasn't just AN, it was also other serious conditions, such as suicidal depression, OCD, body dysmorphia, etc

Some of the content was interesting and potentially helpful, but it was quite shocking, the feeling that we were going to be left in the lurch, not with our little bit of knowledge and understanding just improving feelings of welcome and acceptance for our charges, but somehow responsible for them medically.

I think parents have a very limited idea of what teacher training about medical issues consist of. I have over my career trained in more than 60 medical conditions, but nothing like this, in the past I have learnt danger signs like "if a child with asthma cant complete a sentence without drawing breath, call an ambulance". Or "try painting the wall that a child with ASD is facing blank pale pink, it might help" - or " a child with CP may work better on a vertical surface not a horizontal one" etc

not medical management, and not absolutes, just guidelines for safety and things to try only

I did not complete it, and did not allow my name to be recorded as having attended.

I still stand by that - a run through of a few power points does not make me a safely knowledgeable and qualified person for a child with AN to rely on

AIBU?

and the issue is, there is no CAMHS involvement! waiting list too long

I had an eating disorder when younger - unfort it’s quite common with neurodiverse children; I also have ocd and inattentive adhd.
But I am very confused about your post. Were you sent on a course with the idea you would help one particular student?
I am not making the distinction between raising awareness of how to interact with these children and taking responsibility? I think it’s important to ensure teachers / pa’s know what language / behaviour can help or hinder a child in this situation so education is helpful although no I don’t think you can take responsibility.
My daughter recently lost 10% of her body weight quite quickly earlier this year. She has sen and her sen teacher contact is also her head of year plus her dance teacher as well. This teacher knows of her multiply sen plus anxiety. My daughter was wearing a leotard in school several days a week - there was no way this teacher could not have noticed her weight loss. The other kids were teasing her that she looked like a stick insect. I was gobsmacked the school never contacted me. I knew the reason she had lost weight (due to anti depressants suppressing appetite) but the school did not know that. I have not contacted them as I know they’ll blotch things up if I do - and it’s a private school.

If CAMHS are not involved yet who is asking you to supervise these children while they eat, weigh them, measure their waists and monitor their calory/fluid intake?

I completed the relevant section before I left, I did not complete the course

So what were you asked to do?

Okay, so the issue isn't actually related to the AN segment, it's about being trained in the other MH conditions?

no, I left before the end of the course, and did not allow my name to be recorded as present, as I did not want to be told I was responsible for this students medical condition

I think you should contact your union about this, you're being put into a role that is not your job. This is the job of parents and qualified medical professionals. As a teacher myself, I have never been asked to do something like this, and I really don't think it's normal. Teachers workload is already far too much without having something like this added onto it.

So what exactly were you told to do and how did they tell you that you were now responsible for her condition and not her parents or GP whilst waiting for Cahms.

What is your role?

more or less, yes, it wasnt a clear set of instructions as such, it was more "Here is a list of what you should be considering - use your judgement" - but I have no knowledge on which to base any judgement, and would not be able to make any decision or justify any course of action

I did not want to be told I was responsible for this students medical condition

What do you mean by "responsible for"? Who is holding you personally accountable for the health of these children and in what way?

If you have been told you have a responsibility to be aware of students indivudal vulnerabilites and report any concerns, then this is absolutely reasonable.

If you have genuinely been told it is your responsibility to weigh them, measure them, monitor their calories and fluid intake as you have claimed then that is, of course, ridiculous and you should raise this with HR and your union.

They asked you to measure her waist and weigh her?

Use your judgement for what?

Why did you start this thread @Nimbostratus100 ? Because it's quite clear you think you were not being unreasonable

I don't understand how walking out of the training is more valuable and beneficial to the tutee than completing it

If OP (wisely) had no intention of being made responsible anyway it seems a moot point

Just one thing though, Nimbostratus100 ... you may have asked that your name not be recorded, but are you sure it wasn't done anyway?
IME most of these things judge initial success by "bums on seats" and I can't imagine they'd appreciate any reduction

And BTW I also agree with the PP about getting your union's guidance on this

YANBU at all. Not at all.

Nobody would ever ask you to restrict water. Water restriction is hugely dangerous particularly if restricting.

Sorry I smell bullshit. You aren’t answering questions and some of this is ridiculous.

It wasnt a clear set of instructions as such, it was more "Here is a list of what you should be considering - use your judgement"

Standard, I'm afraid; they know perfectly well that they can't reasonably demand you take this on, so instead resort to implying you might do such-and-such to get the box ticked and the need "met"

Frankly it's a shame more don't take the stance you have ...

If you believed that finishing the course would oblige you to be responsible for situations that you don’t feel properly trained for then you did the right thing.

There is no arguing with your choice because no one should be made to do anything they aren’t comfortable with in a professional setting, nor be made to feel obliged to take responsibility for something they aren’t adequately trained for. It’s really that simple.

And what were you asked to do with this weighing data? Have you got charts to work out wfh calculations with weight and height because what is healthy varies hugely from child to child.

I do not believe for one minute you were told to weigh, measure waists or restrict water,if you were the course needs to be stopped.

You should have awareness but not be expected to manage the condition. Is there not a school nurse who should be in charge of the medical management of these conditions while the child is on school premises. in fact, AN is an extremely complex comdition and i would atgue that the school nurse has far too much to do already and so would only be expected to manage any medical emergencies thay arose as a conplication of the AN.

I’m a TA and looked after a very unstable diabetic. I had no choice . Operating the app, rounding up and down dosages of insulin, the dexcom, prick testing, ketone testing, injecting measured doses and dealing with non safety needles. Dealing with hypos and hypers. Poor kid but I used to lie awake worrying if I d made a mistake as I was often on my own. I wasn’t their 121 but might as well have been. This level of care is now “normal” in school. TAs bearing the brunt of it.

My DD19 lost years of education due to OCD and body dysmorphia. Most of that time was spent with me battling with the school and it made me ill as well - I used to feel sick with the stress of it and the contempt from everyone from teaching staff to the principal was tangible. Now I know why.

What I find hard to believe, and it seems I am not alone, is that you were being asked to "take responsibility" for students' medical conditions. I think its more likely you were being trained to be aware (and no that shouldn't have been in your own time obviously) of these types of conditions and use some compassion and common sense. But if you make it out that you were being told you were "responsible" then you can try and stir up some outrage. Nothing more MN likes than to talk about how bad teachers have it.

The casual cruel remarks and ignorance the staff showed my DD exacerbated her condition which escalated whilst she was in 6th form; it made her feel utterly worthless. I noted throughout this that the school were putting on their website that staff had attended courses like this - so as to discharge any vague sense of duty they might have had. Seems like this course was aimed at doing that OP, maybe entirely ill-informed and not even really well-intentioned. But you being asked to use common sense and god forbid some compassion? How has that so mightily offended you?

BTW there is no way in hell a child with anorexia should be weighed in school by staff - how humiliating is that?! If they told you that on the course then it was just a Mickey Mouse box ticking exercise. You should complain about that, not that you were expected to do some training in the first place.

HangerLaneGyratorySystem

Exactly what we have experienced and you have summed up in a nutshell what I suspect.

I think it would be fair to attend it as it may give you some more knowledge on the issues but in no way are you as a teacher responsible for supporting or guiding students with these type of issues. It is way outside your remit as a teacher.