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AIBU?

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Original poster

Puppy yoga - unethical

75 replies

mymycherrypie · 12/02/2023 21:36

I understand that with rescue dogs this could be a legitimate thing, the dogs get some human contact and benefit where by they wouldn’t normally in kennels.

But people I know have bred dogs which suffer from breathing issues but are currently in fashion, and as a result of not being able to sell them on (priced them too high and the dogs got old) has gone down this route instead. She is not a yoga teacher or has any interest in yoga.

AIBU to think that this is a bit of an unregulated area really in general. She keeps her dogs well and spoils them but the idea of them being bred for money - not to go to a family but to perform for and get touched up by strangers at classes - makes me uneasy. After we leave these puppies after a class, how do we know what happens to them. Having masses of puppies for this seems unnecessary when rescue dogs could benefit so much.

Do you think it’s unethical?

OP posts:
WhoNeedsSleepNotISaidMyBody · 12/02/2023 22:24

OK I'm not googling this nonsense.

I feel like you're speaking a foreign language.

WTAF is puppy yoga??

& more importantly, what do you mean by 'touching up'. Where I'm from that's 'sexual'.

???

Testina · 12/02/2023 22:25

@mymycherrypie “The dogs get attention that they otherwise would not.”

Why are you assuming that those dogs are happy with the attention, but the “yoga puppies” are not?

Original poster
mymycherrypie · 12/02/2023 22:29

WhoNeedsSleepNotISaidMyBody · 12/02/2023 22:24

OK I'm not googling this nonsense.

I feel like you're speaking a foreign language.

WTAF is puppy yoga??

& more importantly, what do you mean by 'touching up'. Where I'm from that's 'sexual'.

???

Puppy yoga is very basic entry level yoga with 10 or so puppies in the room. You cuddle them as part of it, they join in with you for some of the moves. So they get touched a lot and cuddles are part of the deal as far as I can tell.

PETA have spoken out against goat yoga which is the same concept but with goats.

OP posts:
Ludo19 · 12/02/2023 22:29

WhoNeedsSleepNotISaidMyBody · 12/02/2023 22:24

OK I'm not googling this nonsense.

I feel like you're speaking a foreign language.

WTAF is puppy yoga??

& more importantly, what do you mean by 'touching up'. Where I'm from that's 'sexual'.

???

I'm with you! I have heard of goat yoga..... your on all fours and a pygmy goat climbs all over you.

Windbeneathmybingowings · 12/02/2023 22:31

Oh I’ve seen this but with huskies. I do wonder what will happen when they are big though.

follyfoot37 · 12/02/2023 23:13

mymycherrypie · 12/02/2023 21:36

I understand that with rescue dogs this could be a legitimate thing, the dogs get some human contact and benefit where by they wouldn’t normally in kennels.

But people I know have bred dogs which suffer from breathing issues but are currently in fashion, and as a result of not being able to sell them on (priced them too high and the dogs got old) has gone down this route instead. She is not a yoga teacher or has any interest in yoga.

AIBU to think that this is a bit of an unregulated area really in general. She keeps her dogs well and spoils them but the idea of them being bred for money - not to go to a family but to perform for and get touched up by strangers at classes - makes me uneasy. After we leave these puppies after a class, how do we know what happens to them. Having masses of puppies for this seems unnecessary when rescue dogs could benefit so much.

Do you think it’s unethical?

"Get touched up..."
Is this some sort of perverse sex thing?

Georgeandzippyzoo · 12/02/2023 23:18

Lesina · 12/02/2023 22:05

Of course it’s unethical. From
uour post you know some one who is indiscriminately breeding puppies for financial gain and these puppies are not in a normal family setting,
properly socialised and well brought up. What happens when they are not puppies anymore?

What happens when they are not puppies anymore?
thats exactly what I was wondering. They're not just a commodity you can dispose of, and what do you do ? Just breed another litter?

HouseIsOnFire · 13/02/2023 00:11

Surely it depends on the person running it.
We've been to our local one and I asked

HouseIsOnFire · 13/02/2023 00:16

HouseIsOnFire · 13/02/2023 00:11

Surely it depends on the person running it.
We've been to our local one and I asked

Whoops pressed too soon!

We've been to our local and asked how it works. The organiser is in contact with several breeders and it helps the puppies socialise with people before they go to their forever homes. They were all older puppies, so very close to their tehoming age.
They limit the number of classes puppies do and the number of people there is limited, the puppies were free to roam and could hide in a room away from people (no puppy chose to do this). Classes are sporadic, whenever there is a litter ready - they're not being bred solely for this.
Yes there is the general debate about breeding dogs, but if it's reputable breeders and the puppies were enjoying themselves why not? How is it any more or less ethical than bredding pups for dogs and not giving them this experience?

AnnoyedFromSlough · 13/02/2023 01:51

Windbeneathmybingowings · 12/02/2023 22:31

Oh I’ve seen this but with huskies. I do wonder what will happen when they are big though.

They will hopefully be at their forever homes by that point. They definitely won't be used for puppy yoga classes are they are no longer puppies.

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 13/02/2023 03:10

Well it's not something I've tried myself but having read this, I'll be sticking with cat juggling, snake curling and stretch armstrong for my exercises, thank you.

Mariposa26 · 13/02/2023 05:09

There is obviously a debate around puppy breeding and making money from animals in general, but in terms of the specific ethics of this I don’t see why it is any thing different to be outraged about - if you’ve ever met a puppy you will know that they absolutely LOVE the opportunity to run about together, climb over humans and get lots of cuddles. I went to one of these sessions as my friend had a spare ticket and whilst no yoga was done, the puppies were loving it, their little tails were going wild from all the wagging. They go to their homes afterwards in the usual way, which they would if they were part of the sessions or not. I agree the price of this stuff is excessive - but people will pay it which is surely their own concern.

Onnabugeisha · 13/02/2023 06:06

Testina · 12/02/2023 22:22

@Onnabugeisha “Horse riding is mutually beneficial. Horses need to be exercised by riding them or get atrophy, get injuries and die an early death.”

But the horses are only bred to be ridden.
Don’t breed them - for money - and you don’t need to be ridden.
They could be exercised by experienced riders, instead of being yanked about and kicked about my beginners. But then they wouldn’t make money.

I’m with you on horse racing though.

They’re not bred to be ridden, they’re trained to be ridden.
You can ride any breed of horse.

Vast majority of horses are exercised by experienced riders.

It’s not the riding of horses that is exploitation, it’s using them to make money that is exploitation. Most horses are treated better than house pets, and loved just as much if not more.

Onnabugeisha · 13/02/2023 06:08

mymycherrypie · 12/02/2023 22:29

Puppy yoga is very basic entry level yoga with 10 or so puppies in the room. You cuddle them as part of it, they join in with you for some of the moves. So they get touched a lot and cuddles are part of the deal as far as I can tell.

PETA have spoken out against goat yoga which is the same concept but with goats.

Show quote history

I used to go to mum and baby yoga….this sounds very similar in that we held our babies and cuddled them for all the yoga moves we did.

Onnabugeisha · 13/02/2023 06:12

ForestMountainsDesertOcean · 12/02/2023 22:24

They need to run. They don't need to be ridden. FFS.

Show quote history

Yes well free running horses tend to be the wild breeds that can survive on their own- albeit in managed nature preserves where we check on their health and take them food. Domestic horses would die without us and also tend to get run over by cars if let loose.

It’s rather like dumping a goldfish in a lake, you’re not setting it free. You’re releasing it to certain death.

Horses enjoy being ridden by their human as much as dogs like playing with their human.

SprungIsSpringing · 13/02/2023 06:32

the puppies were free to roam and could hide in a room away from people (no puppy chose to do this).

The rest sounds ok but this bit is a red herring. At 8 weeks old no puppy would choose to leave company - even bad company - and take itself off. They have a biological imperative to stay where others are. Therefore they don't rally have a choice at all, at that age.

DarkForces · 13/02/2023 06:38

My dog would love this sooo much. She adores getting a fuss from strangers. Dogs have been bred over thousands years to be with people and live being cuddled and stroked. I really don't see the issue with this. It's probably more rewarding to the dogs than the humans

Adrelaxzz · 13/02/2023 06:42

Onnabugeisha · 13/02/2023 06:12

Yes well free running horses tend to be the wild breeds that can survive on their own- albeit in managed nature preserves where we check on their health and take them food. Domestic horses would die without us and also tend to get run over by cars if let loose.

It’s rather like dumping a goldfish in a lake, you’re not setting it free. You’re releasing it to certain death.

Horses enjoy being ridden by their human as much as dogs like playing with their human.

Show quote history

Come on. I ride. Horses have to be broken in. They don't naturally love being ridden. They would be much happier running around all day in a field, or around the countryside with their mates if humans hadn't taken over most of the world.

mintdaisy · 13/02/2023 06:45

My 5 year old has just been invited to a puppy yoga party. I'd never heard of it before but sounds like it's quite fashionable. She's quite scared of dogs so not sure she would want to go, the party girl is a big animal lover.

Onnabugeisha · 13/02/2023 06:51

Adrelaxzz · 13/02/2023 06:42

Come on. I ride. Horses have to be broken in. They don't naturally love being ridden. They would be much happier running around all day in a field, or around the countryside with their mates if humans hadn't taken over most of the world.

Show quote history

Come on, it’s not like humans couldn’t be apex predators.

Before humans domesticated horses to ride them, we hunted and ate them. That was the other path- the same the cow went down. Which do you think an animal is going to prefer? Being an outdoor pet who gets ridden every other day for a few hours and then free in a field with its mates the rest of the time or born, and then off to the slaughter house before their 3rd birthday? Or younger.,,as foal meat would probably be a delicacy.

Horses were hunted to extinction in the Americas. They’re only there now because Europeans brought horses with them and reintroduced them. Horses could have been made completely extinct thousands of years ago if we hadn’t adopted them for riding.

Adrelaxzz · 13/02/2023 07:11

@Onnabugeisha that's a pretty low bar to set for our ability to be compassionate about animals. I'm veggie so wouldn't eat them, but do have a quandary about riding. I'm not going to pretend horses love it.

Ginmonkeyagain · 13/02/2023 07:29

I hate all this sort of stuff - cat cafes, petting zoos etc.. animals are living beings not toys or accessories. My dad is a sheep farmer and at lambing time he can get parents asking (and sometimes not asking just dangling their children over the fence to touch the sheep) if their child can come and pet and stroke lambs. He always says no. Lambing is a delicate time, sheep can be protective of their young and get violent if threatened and can reject a lamb if it smells too much of humans.

It is not appropriate.

Dogs are also not particularly clean or hygienic, I would not want to be touching them whilst doing yoga.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 13/02/2023 07:34

Adrelaxzz · 13/02/2023 07:11

@Onnabugeisha that's a pretty low bar to set for our ability to be compassionate about animals. I'm veggie so wouldn't eat them, but do have a quandary about riding. I'm not going to pretend horses love it.

Actually, lots of horses thrive in ridden work and can develop behavioural problems if they're out of work for some reason. Once broken in, many need to be kept in work to keep them fit and healthy.

I suppose you could argue that it's unnatural because they have to be broken in, but if you go down that road, most forms of animal ownership are unnatural.

Dogs are house broken, trained to walk on leads and obey our commands. Cats are trained to use litter trays and often aren't allowed to hunt in their natural way. Birds are kept in houses or cages and never allowed to free fly. Hamsters and rabbits, who easily run miles in the wild, are kept confined in runs and cages - the list goes on, really.

I mean, if you're going to argue that horses (who have been domesticated and raised as ridden animals for centuries) dislike being ridden, does the same apply to guide dogs? Do they hate working? What about sheep dogs or gun dogs or other working breeds?

Onnabugeisha · 13/02/2023 07:35

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 13/02/2023 07:34

Actually, lots of horses thrive in ridden work and can develop behavioural problems if they're out of work for some reason. Once broken in, many need to be kept in work to keep them fit and healthy.

I suppose you could argue that it's unnatural because they have to be broken in, but if you go down that road, most forms of animal ownership are unnatural.

Dogs are house broken, trained to walk on leads and obey our commands. Cats are trained to use litter trays and often aren't allowed to hunt in their natural way. Birds are kept in houses or cages and never allowed to free fly. Hamsters and rabbits, who easily run miles in the wild, are kept confined in runs and cages - the list goes on, really.

I mean, if you're going to argue that horses (who have been domesticated and raised as ridden animals for centuries) dislike being ridden, does the same apply to guide dogs? Do they hate working? What about sheep dogs or gun dogs or other working breeds?

Show quote history

Well said.

Onnabugeisha · 13/02/2023 07:38

Adrelaxzz · 13/02/2023 07:11

@Onnabugeisha that's a pretty low bar to set for our ability to be compassionate about animals. I'm veggie so wouldn't eat them, but do have a quandary about riding. I'm not going to pretend horses love it.

I’m not pretending. I can tell when a horse is happy much the same way a dog or cat owner can tell when they’re happy. Horses love to go out riding with a human they know. It doesn’t take long too to be able to give the horse the head…as in signal to them to just take you wherever the horse wishes to go at whatever pace the horse wants to go. You build up a lot of trust and love because horses can quite easily kill their rider if they felt like it.

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