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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask for your help on what you'd do in this situation - family member changing locks

65 replies

Stuck185939496 · 12/02/2023 13:05

I posted before about something relating to this and needless to say am quite spooked and don't feel safe so will shut this thread down once I get some advice.

My grandmother is in hospital and is moving into an assisted care space. My mother went to her house today to get her things to find her sibling has changed the locks, padlocked the place up and stole the spare key.

We called 101 and they said they can't help us and to call a locksmith. If we do that her sibling will just do the same thing again. So now my grandmother is unable to get her things, she's 91. The sibling is unfortunately an executor of the will - but presently she's still alive and he has nothing to do with her or caring for her.

What are our rights here? Is this a police matter? Legal matter? There are things of substantial value in the house and I feel like this needs to be escalated to law enforcement in some way. Does anyone know what our rights are here?

My mothers sibling is unhinged and takes the law into his own hands so likely won't stop here. I feel like he needs reporting, but I know this will be nasty. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

OP posts:

AllTheThingsIWantAreHere · 12/02/2023 13:49

Was she bullied into getting the sibling to be the executor?

Original poster

Stuck185939496 · 12/02/2023 13:53

Thank you. Compiling a to do list.

Unfortunately he's the wealthiest family member but the greediest. We couldn't care less about the money, it's a moral issue.

Some of the retaliation stuff ie. Us changing locks back we are scared of. He will come for us, us or our houses/cars etc. We are ordering ring doorbells and cameras to try get cctv where possible. Because he will just take measures into his own hands. My
Mum is afraid of this but I've told her the police would take it more seriously at that point.

We have tired the sane route of contacting him and just asking to collect her things but it's just been ignored. He also rang my mums work last week and was abusive towards her and her colleagues. This thread is getting really outing now but I felt it was important to get the full picture. Hopefully he doesn't frequent Mumsnet 🤔

OP posts:

Original poster

Stuck185939496 · 12/02/2023 13:53

AllTheThingsIWantAreHere · 12/02/2023 13:49

Was she bullied into getting the sibling to be the executor?

I have no idea. He's always been like this. She was scared of him and scared to upset or challenge him ever since I was born and I'm almost 36.

OP posts:

ChaToilLeam · 12/02/2023 13:56

This is elder abuse, surely? And if he has been harassing your mother and her colleagues that’s a matter for the police. Somebody has to stand up to this vile man.

Dartmoorcheffy · 12/02/2023 13:59

Is your mother the sole beneficiary of her mothers will or is it a family home that your relative has a stake in too?

I would definitely be getting legal advice and going to the police.

Eastereggsboxedupready · 12/02/2023 13:59

Could your dm get her house up for sale ASAP? If she does get out of hospital could she stay with you?

ACynicalDad · 12/02/2023 14:01

Power of attorney and a new will / see if a. codicil can change executors, it would be easier.

Fluffyhoglets · 12/02/2023 14:03

as advised up thread raise a safeguarding financial abuse visit with ASC.
You can break back in with your mothers permission and secure anything valuable in your own homes if not too late.
If he has taken stuff already then gp back to the police.
Put cameras on the house

Fluffyhoglets · 12/02/2023 14:04

Visit should say report!

Bobbydazzla · 12/02/2023 14:12

If I were you OP, I would be making a note of all this and his nasty episodes. Dates, times, behaviour etc. if you know the name of the solicitor where your gm made her Will, I would contact them (I realise that she is still around) and advise them of this. I can’t imagine much can be done re him being an executor at this point, but I think forewarned is forearmed.

Nocutenamesleft · 12/02/2023 14:31

Get him taken off the will immediately

As far as I'm aware it doesn't even have to be in front of a solicitor? Could just be witnessed with anyone who isn't a family member?!?

Even if it's on a napkin?

titchy · 12/02/2023 14:36

SandraDeee · 12/02/2023 13:29

For those insisting that the police should get involved, can you clarify what crime has occurred?

Criminal damage, trespass, squatting. Should be good start with.

luckylavender · 12/02/2023 14:36

PorePatrol · 12/02/2023 13:10

How's your gm mental capacity? She could create a power of attorney for you or your mother so you can handle her affairs (I'd be looking I to this before the brother does)

Currently takes months to do.

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/02/2023 14:40

Call in a locksmith immediately and have it replaced.

Irrelevantdata · 12/02/2023 14:52

He had no legal right to change the locks in the first place so there shouldn't be any legal issue with you changing them again at your DGM's request. It sounds like you're more concerned about aggressive/violent repercussions from the brother, and maybe that he will try to gain access and change the locks again, have I got that right? I wonder if you would get a better response from the police if you mentioned elder abuse? Enlisting adult social services would probably help with that too and I wonder if some sort of restraining order might be possible to keep him away from both the family and DGM's house?

HurdyGurdy19 · 12/02/2023 15:05

I'd be hiring a removals company, then a locksmith, and breaking into that property and emptying it completely, into a storage unit. Then tell your uncle that this is what has been done, and that the items will be safely and securely stored until such time as they need to be legally disposed of.

No crime committed, and no unauthorised removal of your grandmother's possessions possible.

I'd also contact the SOVA (Safeguarding of Vulnerable Adults) team at your local council and see if they can advise or support in some way.

Original poster

Stuck185939496 · 12/02/2023 15:14

Irrelevantdata · 12/02/2023 14:52

We wondered about a restraining order to and whether it was appropriate. But scared of his retaliation in other ways or through other people.

My grandmother has said today in semi coherent words that she doesn't trust him and doesn't want him as the executor but trusts us instead. I know we can't likely use this because we have initiated the chat, but I recorded it so we might be able to use it as a start?

OP posts:

Reinventinganna · 12/02/2023 15:28

bigcheesematrix · 12/02/2023 13:43

Raise as a Safeguard Concern with Adult Social Care. I think it would be seen as a form of financial abuse and neglect (which includes withholding of basic needs - in this case personal items and habitation).
ASC would report to the police if it also has criminal aspects.

This. She’s currently in hospital and can’t access her belongings.

Datafan55 · 12/02/2023 15:39

Do locksmiths not ask for proof it's your house or have permission to change locks?

(actually possibly not. I had to pay one to get in to mine once, and I don't remember them asking me to prove I lived there)

Original poster

Stuck185939496 · 12/02/2023 15:45

Datafan55 · 12/02/2023 15:39

Do locksmiths not ask for proof it's your house or have permission to change locks?

(actually possibly not. I had to pay one to get in to mine once, and I don't remember them asking me to prove I lived there)

They definitely don't because my mum accidentally locked herself out of my house when I was on the other side of the world. She had to get a locksmith then to get back in 😆

OP posts:

Shefliesonherownwings · 12/02/2023 15:48

OP changing the locks may be seen as criminal damage if this relative has no rights over the house. You may also be able to report it as trespass. However the difficulty you may have is that the person with ownership of the house has fluctuating capacity so on a bad day, there will be trouble getting a report from her. This may be something the police say against taking it further for you.

Cherrysoup · 12/02/2023 15:52

It’s a civil matter, but you can change the locks back. (As can he, again). You could get an injunction against him-costs a few grand-to prevent him from entering the property. There’s a power of arrest with that. You could and should tell the police and see if they’ll accept it as breaking and entering but because it’s a relative, they may well say it’s a domestic incident. The best thing to do is for one of you to change the locks and move in.

Datafan55 · 12/02/2023 15:58

Stuck185939496 · 12/02/2023 15:45

They definitely don't because my mum accidentally locked herself out of my house when I was on the other side of the world. She had to get a locksmith then to get back in 😆

Show quote history

Lucky for her then :-D
But what a loophole.... Would have prevented some of this mess for you.

Kangarude · 12/02/2023 15:58

Trespass and squatting are civil matters. To record a crime for any damage your GM would need to make a complaint to the police, which will be tricky if she doesn't have mental capacity. I suggest you change the locks to the house and retrieve the possessions for your GM. If the relative makes any threats against you - that is a police matter. Speak to a solicitor as anyone lacking capacity has the right to be protected

HashtagShitShop · 12/02/2023 16:11

Get in there as quickly as you can by whichever means you need to and safeguard property of your grans which is important to her and would make your lives easier (aka paperwork, bills, post, will, wedding ring and or engagement ring, birth certificates etc as well as her clothing etc) and resecure it all with locks you have access to the keys of. Keep all receipts for expenses caused by this and log his responses if any. Take your phones and keep them in you and go in at least pairs everytime you're at the house and dial 999 if he appears and starts. It could also be worth recording your visits x especially the first, from the locksmith letting you into the house to show what he could have done to it (mess everywhere, obvious searching for cash etc as evidence)

Secondly log all what has happened to you, your gran and mum at the hands of your uncles and give a rough time line. Keep this updated (and take copies even if pics on phones emailed to each other incase he gets his hands on it. Ilog whatever you can going forward with abuse. If he calls work again, put it on speaker phone and record it on a phone or dictaphone etc. Back yourselves up with evidence at every step. Remember to 999 if he approaches in person or tries to intimidate any of you or harm you or your property.

Contact social services and social worker and ask for a safeguarding meeting at their earliest convinience and log elder abuse in your call (it will be recorded.). Tell the hospital where she is that he's not to be allowed to visit her at her own request and at your next of kin requests as she's frightened of him and would be manipulated by him out of fear as well as delirium. Contact the police and log it all as an elder abuse case with added intimidation of those around your gran and contact age UK to cite that too....

In short, evidence evidence evidence. Show her and those officials yuu deal with that you're above board, calm and working from your grans best interests and let that vermin back himself into his own dirty corner when he tries to threaten a social worker or police officer.

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