To expect a friend NOT to make emotional demands of me when I miscarried less than a month ago?

[hackneybird]

I had an MC on 12th Jan. It was a much wanted baby and understandably my DH and I took it hard and were very upset. We are recovering step by step but still feeling fragile. We are back at work and very busy but not really going out very much.

A good friend of ours very sadly has no family (was an olny child and now both parents dead). As a result of this, his friends are his family and he has always been quite a high maintenance person. For example he guessed I was pg before we told anyone, but said he was hurt and offended that we hadn't told him!? However, when we first told him of the MC he was very sweet and sent us nice supportive text messages.

He is currently away renovating his (third) home in the countryside. 2 weeks after I MC'd he rang me to ask me to go to his flat and do some tasks for him after work one night. He caught me at work, at my lowest ebb ever, and I was quite short with him on the phone. A week later he emailed to say he was annoyed I had been so off with him, so I apologised.

He then really generously invited us, and some other friends to his new place for his birthday party in April. As it is an 8 hour drive away I thanked him for his invite but said it would be tough for us to make it as it would require a long weekend, and DH has just started a new job and is not able to take any time off yet.

He then said he would have the party at Easter so we could make it (he didn't ask if we were free that weekend), and that he would be really devastated if his friends couldn't make it to see the place he had been slaving over for months. We have already made arrangements to visit DH's folks at Easter. So I let him know we already had plans and apologised.

This was met with an accusation that I was being really dismissive, that he would travel anywhere in the world for his friends and the least we could do for him was to make an effort for his birthday and to show more interest in him. I don't know what to make of this. We want to visit him, and it is really nice of him to invite us, but we just aren't in a situation where we can do so for another few months.

I just feel that DH and I are really very down at the moment and we need our friends to be gentle and kind to us and to give us some space. Yet this person has made a situation all about him, with no regard for our feelings. It is weeks since he asked how we are and how we are coping. We have been through a shattering experience and yet he thinks we are selfish for not being excited enough about his birthday which is two months away! Arrrggghhh.

Am I being unreasonable?

Ok, I agree with your that falling out completely might not be the right answer

I think the point I was really making is that all of this 'stuff' with your friend has nothing to do with your MC. Things were heading this way anyway.

I think you can withdraw slightly from him, enough to give you a bit of breathing space, but I would suggest you don;t use the MC as the reason for this.

I would make arrangements for an alternative time to go and visit him, at your convenience, so that you remain in control.

I often visit my sister, not far from North Wales for hte weekend, leaving as soon as the children get out of school on Friday pm and coming back Sunday afternoon, so it can easily be done in a weekend if you want to

We're all going for a drink on Saturday so we can have a chat then.

I would love to withdraw for a while, but he emails me a lot and gets really cross if I don't reply. Arrgghh.

I'm 43 and single, and I am not a whiny buckethead who annoys all my friends with constant demands for attention (I'm Not, I'm NOT! WAAAAAH!) Couplehood is not compulsory and many people who have opted for couplehood have opted out of life.

madamez, I said that some time earlier

I think that you are not being unreasonable. You've suffered a distressing event which will stay with you for life (and no I've never had a miscarriage) - this isn't something you or anyone else can brush under the carpet. You're feeling low at the moment and you need your space and you already understand your firned's perspective but at the moment you're too emotianally drained to deal with it. Send him a card and a little gift for his new home or whatever - tell him you're both thinking of him and you're so sorry that you're just not up to thinking about a long trip or making any plans for a little while yet. Explain that you have no idea when you'll be ready to start making plans (because at the end of the day you just don't know when you'll be able to cope better - I know people who are still completely devastated about abortions/miscarriages years after later and it's does take over some peoples' lives and obviously that's not healthy but that's another problem to face at a later date if you feel that you're not able to get past it). Don't feel guilty or be too hard on yourself. If he really cannot give you this time for yourself then it has to be his decision to end the friendship. He might not understand (ever) what you have been through and make hold a resentment over it but eventually if he values your friendship he'll come round.

this is a rough version of the email I sent him.

Interestingly, I has discovered that he has been giving another couple that are mututal friends a hard time about this too. They returned from their honeymoon two weeks ago.

'I did not mean to sound dismissive, I am just really busy at work right now. We have already made arrangements for Easter, but I can see if we can rearrange them, if you decide to go ahead with your party that weekend.

I am sorry, but DH and I are both feeling very fragile at the moment and are trying to get over a devastating loss. I love you very much, but I have to put myself first for the time being. Please do not think I am rejecting you or ignoring you. You know how the grieving process works; I'm just taking life one day at a time and it's really difficult juggling commitments two months hence. I just have no emotional energy left, and if I have upset you it is not intentional'.

If he can't accept that then he's not a true friend. That sounds very nice to me (incredibly nice actually!) well done.

that was a very brave email

i was wondering if he thought that a party at the new house might cheer you up in some way? be a distraction? it obviously isnt what you are in the mood for but maybe he thought it was a good idea?

He's clearly not averse to telling his friends how he's feeling, so I can't see anything wrong with you doing the same thing. Good email. Let us know how he responds.

It isn't a party in our honour, to cheer us up, no. He just wants to share his new country cottage with his friends, which is fantastic.

It's the way he has gone about it. He has suggested a couple of dates which it is hard for us all to make, and he has overreacted to it. It's a bit like -

'you have to come to Wales and see my cottage, because if you don't then you clearly aren't a good friend and that's not fair becuase I have no family and you do and as my friends, you ARE my family and I would do anything for you, so you must do anything for me, when I want it to happen' and so on and so forth.

Anyway, he has responded to my email by writing:

'Fair enough, thanks for writing back honestly.

And you know I'm very sympathetic (I hope you do anyway), it's just that I feel everyone is withdrawing into their couples and families.'

But we're going out tom eve for a few drinks so I hope we can all smooth it over. (And plan a weekend in Wales at a time satisfactory to all!).

He sounds like a high maintenance PITA to be honest.

I wouldn't have apologised to him for being off when he called you at work - he should have been more understanding.

sorry... just my opinion, but not, YANBU

Sorry for your loss

It sounds like your friend and you are both in fragile places at the moment and are taking it out on each other, it may be a good idea to set aside a day where you can meet your friend at his flat or yours and have a really good open chat about the way you are both feeling about things in your lives, sometimes emails and phone calls just don't do it or can be taken the wrong way

It sounds like you are good enough friends to do this and obviously both care about each others feelings

Your friend sounds very emotional and dependant, has he ever had counselling for his losses/issues? if not maybe this could be something he could think about, he doesn't sound very happy in himself and its not fair of him to project his dependancy onto other people all the time

I hope all goes ok for you and your DH too

He has counselling twice a week, and yes, I think he has developed quite serious dependency issues. He never used to be this bad.

And tbh I don't think I'm taking anything out on him. DH and I have had a tough time of late, and he is complaining about HIS hurt feelings as he says we aren't paying him enough attention. He's just being really selfish.

Another couple we are friends with have just returned from their honeymoon and he is doing the same to them.

that will teach me not to read through properly

sorry!

Do you know form his reply it sounds like fear. Fear that if he doesn't keep on at you all and round you up and throw parties and find excuses for you all to get together that you will all dissappear into coupledom and leave him behind.

I am sure we have been in or know someone who has lost touch with their friends when they get marris or have children because your own family dinamic changes so you end up flocking to people in the same situation or other couples or whatever.

He does sound like he needs a bit of helo to get a bit of perspective and when you're emotions are a bit stronger a bit of reassurance even that depsite your very different lives you will still always find and make time for him.

that would be get married not marris
an to complete a sentence we have been in a similar situation.

I need a cleaner you have so hit the nail on the head. That is EXACTLY what it is. We have discussed many times that we?re all going to remain friends, but that people and their lives change and evolve, and we might not see each other as often. It doesn?t mean we can?t be friends anymore. It is just sad that his life is not moving on though, in the way that the lives of his friends are. It would help if he didn?t go out with 20-something cokeheads I suppose

He came round to our house, uninvited, the day after our wedding. I thought it a bit weird at the time as we were in the middle of packing for honeymoon and just wanted to be together, but then I forgot about it. In retrospect I wonder whether he was trying to say ?I?m still here you know! Don?t forget about me!?.

I wish he wasn?t so self absorbed. He is a good and loyal friend, but at times like this he is such hard work it makes him a less enjoyable friend to have. I have other single friends who don?t carry on like this. But then they have families to turn to I suppose.

sparklesand wine, no worries, it was nice of you to post.

It is quite common to lose friends when some people get married and some stay single. SOme people are so obsessed with couplehood that they simply drop any single friends (because they make the dinner party table look untidy or they just might tempt one of the couples into thinking about life outside monogamy, just by existing). Equally, some single people get very resentful that their now-coupled friends are no longer available for wild escapades at short notice, and this is a divide that can open even wider when some people become parents. But on the whole it;s healthier to accept that people move on and their priorities diverge - and to make new friends if you're the one feeling left out.
I understand entirely that hackneybird and her family have too much to deal with at present to be able to provide bottomless support to this man: Hackneybird you haven;t done anything wrong and you are not being a bad friend. He does need to find ways to get himself support, company and attention from other people that aren;t all about emotional blackmail and whining.

I'm glad you used the 'emotional blackmail' phrase Madamez. It is how I feel he is behaving. A few of us are meeting up for drinks tonight, and he has chosen a pub which is a 15 minute bus ride away, despite having about 8 pubs in our locality (we all live near one another). And of course we'll let him have his way, instead of protesting and choosing a pub 5 mins down the road. I think he's making a passive aggressive statement about making his friends travel or something.

Right now, I feel like telling him to fuck off and get a grip. This isn't what friendship is about.

The single friends vs married ones is an interesting one. In our crowd we just all mix a lot as a big gang, but then very few of us have had children yet. I cannot bear the sort of people who drop their mates once they settle down.

We have another crowd of friends who are DH's mates from his hometown. It is a very married couples with kids scene. I know which I prefer.