Is this a safeguarding issue

[footballtime]

Scenario is that Fred (aged 20) is a volunteer football coach at a club for young people aged 11-18, those who are still school age. This role requires a DBS check.

David is a young person at the football club. David is 18 and has only a few months of school left until he leaves after completing his final A Level exams.

Fred and David are 2 years apart and get on well, having got to know each other through the club. They consider each other friends. Fred knows David's mum and has a good relationship with her too.

Fred and David would like to meet, unrelated to the football club, for lunch in a local cafe. They will both travel separately to and from the cafe. Given that Fred is technically in a position of trust, and that while David is 18, he is still a young person in the club, would this be a safeguarding issue?

I can't see any issues here. They have a shared interest and are basically the same age. Both are adults. Seems an excess of caution here.

Yes, it is. I work in the summer with Uni students who might be 18,19,20 and they are responsible for other 18 year olds who are students on our courses. It's made very clear to them during their safeguarding training that there are to be no "friendships" until they are no longer working for us. The age unfortunately muddies the waters, but it is still a position of authority that could be abused.
The 20 year old is in a position of responsibility.
That said, I'm surprised that the same issue hasn't been raised about an adult still playing on the team with (presumably) younger kids. In fairness, far more likely to raise a safeguarding issue v

A lot of the words used are making the 18 year old sound younger than they are. I suppose you could call them technically a young person, but they are also an adult. Using school instead of college also makes him appear younger, even though I know it may be part of a school.

I've been a youth leader in the past and I can't see any issues here.

Would it be the same response if a young school teacher was meeting a six former? He is in a position of trust and responsibility, as the 18 yr old is in his care. I don't think the group leader is being too cautious, because if something is misconstrued, it will come back on the older boy.

It would be considered " arena of unsafe practice" rather than "safeguarding", ie that much larger grey area where we are best to stay out of.

It is normal to have a buffer zone between meeting in a position of authority and meeting socially, in six forms this is normally two years after a student has reached 18 and moved on, I dont know what it would be with sports clubs, but I imagine at least 6 months or so.

within that time frame, a social meeting, accidental or otherwise, yes, you contact your line manager before and after - I have been in this position for example, when bumping into A level students revising in a public library, and stopping to offer support - texted my line manager at the start and end of the encounter

Was David younger than 18 (ie still a child) when they first met (presumably through the club)? That’s the only instance I can see where Fred might be opening himself up to some sort of scrutiny but as presented I don’t see any issue with this.

It's a safeguarding issue because Fred is in a position of trust, in the same way a student teacher is in a position of trust.

It doesn't matter that David is eighteen, what matters is that he's still in school.

It would come under the new 'Position of Trust' guidelines that have recently been extended to include Church Groups and Sports Clubs so it's correct to be cautious.

As long as it is just a friendship and they are meeting somewhere in public, I can't see any issue atall.

18 year old is an adult able to do whatever he wants and doesn't have to answer to anyone or have anyone take responsibility for him.

Talking as someone who works with children and understands safeguarding, there is always a need to exercise caution, but mostly to protect yourself as a professional and ensure you do not leave yourself vulnerable to false allegations potentially being made against you. But in this case I would be happy to meet someone for a drink and wouldn't see any risk or any problem with it.

It would be an issue if David was a minor. But he's not, he's an adult. Adults are absolutely allowed to be friends.

And with only a 2 year age gap, it's entirely possible that Fred was once a member of the club along with David and childhood friends. Would they just have to stop being friends once Fred graduated and started working as a leader for the group?

Does that mean that any adult in a position of trust can't make friends with another adult that attends their club. It's sounds pretty ridiculous if they are both competent adults with no vulnerabilities.

I am a dance teacher and teach adult classes. I am in a position of trust in that I lead the class, am insured, have been DBS checked, and have first aid training in case of an accident. I go for drinks with my students (some of whom are younger than me and some of whom are double my age).

I don't go out for coffee with my underage students, but if one had turned 18 and wanted to chat about things other than dance, I absolutely would. This is not a safeguarding issue.

Fred is in a position of trust. The law only provides rules about those in a position of trust not having relationships with 16 and 17 year old. I think the coach is probably concerned about the bluring of boundaries here eg if he also then starts socialising with 16 and 17 year old. I have come across someone who was 18 or 19 and investigated for a alleged relationship with a 16 year old as they were in a position of trust. So the coach may be being a little over cautious but is being sensible and Fred needs to be professional

Fred will have to wait until David finishes 6th form because he is in a Position of Trust. If Fred was a 35 year old man and he wanted to meet 17 year old Davina - believe me there would be concern raised. As you explain there are no red flags between Fred and David’s relationship but the PoT rules are there to protect everyone and as such can’t be tailored.
I would advise Fred to wait, because at the young age of 20 it would not be worth compromising his future career for the sake of a few months. When Fred decided to work in a PoT he should have been made aware that this is what is expected of him and that those boundaries can not be crossed.

But what about one of them being in a Position of Trust?

This refers to children, not adults

If Fred was a 35 year old man and he wanted to meet 17 year old Davina - believe me there would be concern raised.

Yes, because she is not yet an adult

The leader is protecting Fred from accusations.

They aren't protecting David because he's 18 and there's no reason he would be at risk.

Obviously Fred can have any friends he wants.

My ds is a swimmer and 18. Some of his ex swim mates are now coaches - also 18.

They have been friends for years but that relationship is now position of trust Vs sports person and although they haven't changed their friendship or contact the 2 boys that have become coaches were warned about the conflict now.

www.nya.org.uk/safeguarding-asset/position-of-trust-guidance/

This is nice clear guidance. Position of trust refers to people under the age of 18. The volunteer would be classed as a youth leader so not the same as a full on teacher which people are suggesting. It is to protect children from inappropriate relationships/ sexual relationships which doesn't seem to be an issue here.

Does Fred pick the team? Worries suggest he has power over him.

This is a non issue. None of them from what you say would even meet the definition by law of an adult at risk so safegurding would not even apply. Both are 18 so adults and want to meet up for lunch. I just dont see the issue??!

This.

Agree.

There is no 'safeguarding' for an 18 year old. He's an adult

Well yes because that's a different scenario. I do think ages matter as well and in the op's case they are both adults.