To have not felt relaxed in this situation

[EvenMoreFuriousVexation]

I attend an interest group once per week, I've been going for just over a year. There are more men than women - about 75% men to 25% women ratio on average. I know the men to speak to, but would say they are acquaintances, whereas a few of the women I am friendly with outside of the group.

This week one of the attendees asked if we could listen to a short guided meditation at the beginning of the meetup. (This is in keeping with the interest of the group, wellness etc.) Nobody objected. Lots of us (including me) meditate personally at home on a regular basis.

When the meditation started I closed my eyes as I normally would and focussed on my breathing, but within 30 seconds I began to feel tense and panicky and had to open my eyes. I just sat quietly looking at my hands so as not to distract anyone else. I realised that I did not feel safe being surrounded by such a large number of men (last night there were 6 women including me and about 15 men.) And that my feeling of unsafety was sufficient that it wasn't comfortable for me to keep my eyes shut - even though I knew rationally that I wouldn't be attacked, I didn't feel able to relax enough to meditate.

My question is not so much am I Unreasonable to feel that way, but am I Unusual in feeling that way? I'm a survivor of sexual violence, albeit the last time nearly 25 years ago, and I consider myself well-healed. But would most women who haven't experienced sexual violence from men feel uncomfortable in this scenario too?

Voting:
YABU - most women would have felt comfortable in this scenario
YANBU - most women would have felt on edge in this scenario

I didn't vote because YANBU to feel that way, it's completely understandable. Would I personally feel that way, no. Luckily I haven't experienced that type of trauma so maybe that's why.

There’s a difference between unreasonable and irrational. It’s not “unreasonable” to have an irrational fear, but it’s not really reasonable either. It’s not justified or rational, if that’s what you’re asking?

I don't think this is a "most women would/wouldn't" scenario. You felt uncomfortable and have identified why. That's not unreasonable as it is how you felt.

Have you had any counselling/therapy as it sounds like you enjoy the group but this one moment has caused you upset but you know that, rationally, your fear was not going to be realised in that setting.

Ultimately, if you enjoy this particular group and this is something that would be likely to happen again (the guided meditation) it might be worth speaking to the group leader about having a designated "eyes open" person each time.

I don’t know about most women, but with men I don’t know, unless there was a “teacher” overseeing the session with their eyes open, I would have felt the same as you.

So I think the problem with this for me is, similar to the other thread about women being terrified of men, is there’s nothing that’s stopping the woman who is afraid for trauma related reasons of just altering her behaviour. If you don’t like meditating, you don’t have to. You can keep your eyes open. It just seems like those women want to enlist every woman into their “fear of men” campaign.

why would you need an “eyes open” person. Just keep your eyes open ffs.

When we do the end of yoga session, the female yoga teacher sits there with her eyes on. And that's just with 2-3 men in the room.

I'd not feel right with 75% men, nope.

I won't vote because it is your experience and your experience is valid.

I suspect your experience might be at the more unusual end of the spectrum though - I don't think I would have felt unsafe, no.

I would not have felt unsafe because I was in a large group at a public event and I don't think I would have felt that a group of meditating men was much of a threat.

I would feel unsafe walking in a quiet lane at night if I saw a lone man coming towards me or behind me though, or a group of drunk lads.

I was sexually abused as a child, over 40 years ago, and no, I wouldn't have felt this way, or at least, I haven't felt this way in male-dominated scenarios. (I regularly go hillwalking with a group which is often all male apart from me, and the gm I use is about 75% men.) But that makes no difference to how you felt.

I mean, you're entitled to note your own sense of vulnerability. It might be worth thinking about more generally was it just having your eyes closed that made you feel vulnerable? Do you generally feel vulnerable in the group as it functions normally, outside the eyes-closed meditation? What are your relationships with men like in general do you have male friends? I note that you see several of the women outside the group, but not the men.

Your feelings/instincts are there to keep you safe. There may have been other people there who felt uncomfortable with their eyes closed but not felt as confident to open them. You did the right thing. Don't doubt yourself.

If you felt uncomfortable then your feelings are valid whatever the reasons for them. If you want to do the meditation and you don’t want to close your eyes then don’t. I don’t feel comfortable closing my eyes in a room full of women, and it’s not hurting anyone else.
Women are far too willing to stay in uncomfortable situations just so they don’t upset a man.

Sorry -- strike-through accidental.

For me it depends entirely on the vibe in the group. If anybody was to move too close to me or touch me I would say out loud “excuse me, can you move please?” If I felt the group would support me I’d feel safe, if I felt I’d be belittled or laughed at then I wouldn’t.
My fear is not being believed/supported not an actual inappropriate approach.

What you're describing is a level of hypervigilance, which is a natural reaction to trauma. People may develop different reactions - personally when I was younger I couldn't close my eyes in a group, regardless of gender. My history was of violence/mistrust rather than SA though.

I know a few women who train a martial art who started because of a similar history, literally facing their fear/feeling empowered by learning self defence and grappling, including with men. I appreciate that's not for everyone but just to say that you're feelings are valid, and you have the option of changing your reactions if you want to.

You aren't being unreasonable, because of your past trauma then it's perfectly valid for you to feel what you do.

I can't speak for others, but I wouldn't feel uncomfortable closing my eyes because there were a lot of men in the group.

I haven’t voted as all I can say is how I would have felt. I think I would have felt ok, but then I have only meditated in predominantly female groups.

This is a progressive thing - turning off your hypervigilance is a learned behaviour. After years of working in jobs where violence was a daily affair, it took me years to learn to be comfortable sitting with back to a door or window in a pub, cafe etc. I had to actively learn to reduce my levels of vigilance.

Noone here can answer for 'most women'.

Also not necessarily relevant. What is relevant is how you felt and whether that was useful to you, or whether you'd like to feel differently about it in future.

YABU. Why are women so terrified of men for. Yes I can understand if you're alone and it's dark or something but not in a big group

I voted YANBU but obviously it's not necessarily "most" women. But it's definitely going to be likely amongst women who have already been attacked.

I've had years of therapy of different kinds and live a mostly great life. But reaction to male bodies is something I can't seem to switch off. I was actually doing well but these events screwed up my progress. 1) Being pregnant in my mid 30s and experiencing a massive uptick in sexual harassment to rival that of my early 20s. It's when the penny finally dropped for me about the role of vulnerability, rather than attractiveness, in this kind of thing. 2) Becoming aware of how deep misogyny runs in society through the political and corporate pandering to outwardly homophobic and misogynist trans rights ideologues. 3) Trying to argue for my right to single sex services online and having my trauma experiences ridiculed and dismissed.

Like everyone else has said. You are permitted to your feelings. I would have felt comfortable, so everyone is different

A feeling is neither reasonable nor unreasonable, it’s a feeling not a rational thought, if that makes sense.

Totally understandable for you to feel that way.

I don’t think it’s a case of most women feeling a certain way. I’m also a survivor of sexual violence, and I would be fine in that situation. But it’s not that one of us is right and the other wrong. It’s just how we feel.

To answer a few q's
@TimeForTeaAndG I've had a lot of therapy, been in a few self-help groups (helped run one with my late husband for survivors of CSE) and done a lot of work on my general mental health. It really doesn't affect my day to day functioning now (it massively impacted me when younger.)

I do feel very supported within the group and if as @museumum mentioned, if someone had touched me I would have felt confident to say What are you doing, and I am confident that I would have been believed. I don't think the meditation thing is likely to be repeated - but if it does I shall just sit quietly with my eyes open.

I do very much enjoy this group and I am not wary of any of the men individually. And I really like the guy who asked for us to do this - he's a lovely gentle person. And I like meditation alone. So I was taken aback at the unease I felt.

@NotableSilences
was it just having your eyes closed that made you feel vulnerable? Do you generally feel vulnerable in the group as it functions normally, outside the eyes-closed meditation? What are your relationships with men like in general do you have male friends
It was definitely closing my eyes that kicked off the feelings. I usually feel very comfortable with these people, it's a very supportive group. Generally speaking I've always got on fine with men generally, in fact I find it easier to make small talk with men, but I tend to keep male friends fairly emotionally distant as I've had problems in the past keeping things platonic or causing unnecessary stress to partners. I've been single for 10 years and hope to remain so but my last two relationships with men were healthy. I don't have a relationship with any male family members. No brothers, my beloved Grandpa died many years ago, and my dad was my abuser. So my mistrust of men has been literally a lifelong battle!

@Brieandme and @RedCarsGoFaster yes it's definitely hyper-vigilance, and I do have a PTSD diagnosis but thought those days were pretty much behind me. I will have a think about if I want to address this. EMDR didn't exist back in the days when I was diagnosed but perhaps it's worth me investigating this now. Although the scenario seems unlikely to recur, I don't like to feel like my past trauma is keeping me in a fear-based state when there is absolutely no real threat.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts.

YANBU to have felt really uncomfortable but I'd personally have been fine so it's one of those situations where there is absolutely no right or wrong way to feel. I hope you are okay as I totally understand how certain situations can trigger all sorts of feelings and it's awful when it happens.