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To ask for the best tips to improve 15 yr olds spelling

49 replies

TheColourofspring · 09/02/2023 06:27

DS 15 has terrible spelling and it’s affecting his GCSE work. Anyone got any good tips on how to help him improve? I wondered if going back to basics was the answer- like getting him a younger spelling book 10 mins a day or something?

Anyone got thoughts or tips?

OP posts:
Newlifestartingatlast · 09/02/2023 08:16

Try to understand what he finds difficult about recalling how to spell words, and look for patterns in what he miss spells

sorry, long one but I’m passionate about this as solutions given here are literally useless for a lot of bad spellers.

i am a terrible speller. To the point dictionaries are no good as often I don’t know what comes after the first letter. But I have a big vocabulary, am now in my 60s, read avidly , have a degree and retired from long acedemic career. And my mum was an English teacher 🤦‍♀️

i spent huge amounts of time up to 18 being “ punished” because I could not spell …writing stupid words out 10 times , failing spelling tests, then being given more spellings to learn cos I failed those

But, by the time I was in my mid 20s I figured out what my issue is. I speed read and read by recognising pictorially the overall shape of a complete word . Phonics or other techniques back in 70s completely useless for me. I have a very pictorial and placement memory- if I can’t see things in my head I can’t recall them. It took me quite a while to learn to read but when I got it at around 7, I would read continuously and get through 4-5 books a week . But when it comes to spelling I can see the overall word in my minds eye, but don’t pick out individual letters. So an example is word “decision” ; I know it begins with D -, I know it ends in “ sion” easy enough as that’s a shape that is used so much I know how the letters sequence…I do know it has a “c” in it somewhere, but even now at 60, I’m blowed if I can see the rest …it could be de, Di, and the order of all those similar round letters, vowels and the 2 “i” is just a blur when trying to picture it and recall. Words with lots of vowels are ones I can’t read ..”beautiful “ aghh..took me 3 goes just now to get past “b” and select it from precursive text.🤷🏼‍♀️🤣🙄

I am also a terrible proof reader - I used to write technical documents and procedures and completely relied on spell check. But I’d often ask someone else to check if it was important or external documentation. Same problem, I can’t see and therefore can’t recall the detail of the spelling - I don’t spot letters missing, switched etc especially if they’re vowels and things like “c”, “r” ( all small curvy letters)

here’s the thing though…it runs in my family, exactly same issue . Me and one of my siblings have this issue, one of my 2 dc does, my niece but not my nephew…when you actually dig into why they can’t spell it’s exactly the same thing…we just can’t read in our memory all those little curly letters and the vowels…all look too similar strung together in a word. We need stand out letters going above and below the line to give structure: g, h, f, all great. But a lot of issues early on with using p/a and b/d the wrong way round , we knew the letter needed but just wrote it in mirror ( deb not bed )

someone once told me it’s a form of dyslexia. But our reading skills are advanced and fast once we get to 6-7 years old, we all use extensive vocabulary, no issues with crosswords but can’t do anagrams. My son and niece both tested for dyslexia at university ( they wanted to get a freebie laptop 🤣🤣) but no issues found.

There is nothing that we can do, other than rely ( ok, that’s a word that doesn’t look right as I’ve written it but can’t tell you why) on technology . My son used a more advanced piece of software ( can’t remember what) that helped him through university and producing reports at work but it’s not foolproof.

curiously though we are extremely numerical and can spot anamolies in vast swathes of numerical data- it was something of a skill that led me to the career I had and we all went a scientific/ maths route

so, point is, find out exactly what the issue is. Very few kids that are poor spellers can be taught to improve by copying out 10 times. If that works for a kid they’re probably the ones that already learn to spell by learning for spelling tests and being able to recall spelling easily by more photographic or verbal memory. . Some kids get phonics then can build on exceptions. Some of true dyslexia where words seem to swim about and again they struggle to read or recall the spellings

in my case there’s not anything that can be done, other than learning certain words are my downfall, and if I get stuck it’s because of my usual culprit letters missing in my picture in my mind , so I’ll go to google and play around a bit in search till it pops up …different from using a dictionary as I can often find it by typing a sentence with it and google tries to correct it when returning what it thinks I’m saying…very handy for me.

thank god for technology or I’ll have continued to struggle and piss people off as I did till the late 1990s when we got personal computers

Once figure out exactly what and where the issues are you can start to manage your weakness by finding tools or tricks that can help, but maybe accept that for some people you even 55 years at it still won’t cure you

And don’t even get me started on my abject failure to learn French as a child in days when it was mostly all written French..all those bloody silent letters . Merd! 🤣🤣🙄😱

TeenDivided · 09/02/2023 08:21

JessicaFletcherscrewnecksweater · 09/02/2023 08:08

Well sadly, reading is the key. Being exposed to words every day is how to learn and memorise and visualise them. It’s a shame when kids don’t read, it’s such an enriching, lifelong pastime.

Until you realise that dyslexic children find reading a strain, not a pleasure, and that reading isn't always key. If it was my DD wouldn't have been so behind with spelling.

CecilyP · 09/02/2023 10:07

Aishah231 · 09/02/2023 06:41

Get them to read as much as possible. This will improve spelling.

It really won't!

CecilyP · 09/02/2023 10:11

I'll elaborate. Having met many poor spellers who are avid readers, I know that more reading is not going to make much difference. Obviously with young children, they will be trying to write words that they have not yet seen written down and as they read more, spelling will become clearer. By the age of 15 that will no longer be the case.

CecilyP · 09/02/2023 10:17

Studying the different spelling rules and patterns is helpful too.

This is the best advice. A book I would really recommend which really deals with this is Signposts to Spelling by Joy Pollock. It is quite old but can be obtained cheaply on second hand book sites.

CecilyP · 09/02/2023 10:31

Well sadly, reading is the key. Being exposed to words every day is how to learn and memorise and visualise them. It’s a shame when kids don’t read, it’s such an enriching, lifelong pastime.

No that is how we, the good spellers, learn how to spell. Because we have strong visual memory. Often this is what poor spellers lack so need to do more specific and focused work on spelling patterns.

iphonecharger · 09/02/2023 10:45

CecilyP · 09/02/2023 10:31

Well sadly, reading is the key. Being exposed to words every day is how to learn and memorise and visualise them. It’s a shame when kids don’t read, it’s such an enriching, lifelong pastime.

No that is how we, the good spellers, learn how to spell. Because we have strong visual memory. Often this is what poor spellers lack so need to do more specific and focused work on spelling patterns.

I would agree. I am dyslexic. Find spelling extremely difficult, yet I'm an avid reader, always found it easy to read and can recognise words easily on sight. I cannot for the life of me though, reproduce the words myself. I know that most people can manage to learn to spell correctly by simply being exposed to words on a page, I actually need to learn the "rules".
I would need an " i before e, except after c" for all groups of words. I need the whole " double the constant when following a monosyllabic word" kind of approach. Even then I struggle, but it's probably what would have helped as a child but never got, seeing as I was able enough to mask my dyslexia till GCSEs.

EnglishTutor2629 · 09/02/2023 10:45

I've picked out @TeenDivided's post, but some other posters have said some of these things too.

My DD was a happy reader. Still had trouble spelling, would spell the same word 3 different ways in the space of a few lines. Turns out she's dyslexic.

My older DS is also dyslexic, so that could be a consideration for OP's DS if it hasn't been investigated (although it's cutting it fine to get any exam provision in place if starting from scratch, and he's already in Year 11). My DS also has Irlens, which is twice as common in people compared to dyslexia (e.g. around 10% of the population may be dyslexic, whereas 20% may have Irlens). So maybe see if that can be eliminated too, especially as it has a huge impact on making reading difficult if letters are jumping around all over the place, or the white space looks like rivers between words.

Note that for English Language GCSE you get more marks for interesting use of language than you do for spelling. So better to use picturesque spelled incorrectly than pretty spelled correctly.

As a GCSE English tutor, this is very important to take on board, yet often I find my students' teachers either don't know this, or haven't bothered telling them. Yes, ideally examiners do expect students to show an awareness of the correct use of homophones and the basic 'rules' such as 'y' to 'ies' for plurals, doubling the final consonant, where needed, before adding a suffix, knowing that simple plurals mean adding 's', not 'apostrophe s' (e.g. it's handbag to handbags, not handbag to handbag's if you have more than one). So these are the ones which matter in terms of accuracy marks.

But when it comes to writing tasks, examiners would always prefer to see students stretching themselves to make interesting 'ambitious' vocabulary choices, even if they can't spell the harder word correctly. Examiners know that often students won't be using the more ambitious spellings regularly enough to have 'learned how to spell them'. Basically, as long as meaning is clear, then students are not penalised for attempting ambitious vocabulary choices.

I must admit, I do encourage all of my students to read little and often - around 15 minutes a day, 5 or 6 days a week - and from a wide variety of genres. So not just the Literature texts, but newspapers, magazines, something by a favourite writer, research about a favourite celebrity, hobby magazines or websites, or even just taking a book from the shelf in the library, reading the first couple of pages there and then, and then putting the book back.

While reading like this won't magically make anyone a brilliant speller, it does expose them to different/unusual vocabulary choices, as well as models of 'good practice' in terms of seeing text written with good use of paragraphing, sentence structures, punctuation etc.

Sorry, that's a bit long, but hopefully at least a little bit useful in part!

Whyjustwhy123 · 10/02/2023 18:23

Loving reading these posts.

I have deep shame from feeling so stupid because I could not (still can’t) spell. It has haunted all my life.

Yet I’m an avid reader and always have been. So the posts saying ‘oh you have to read to be learn to spell’ really make me cross.

What do people who can’t spell but read lots take from this? That they are just thick? Or lazy?

The descriptions above are so familiar in particular @Newlifestartingatlast I just cannot see how words are spelt.

For example birthday. A few weeks ago my dc asked how to spell it out loud - my absolute worst nightmare - I could not remember for the life of me was it bu be bi bar, seriously I went into a cold sweat. Had to discreetly use my phone (ha just took me a good few times to find discreetly).

Good luck Op

Sorry for derailing your thread.

However if it’s any consultation, I have a degree from a Russell Group uni, a MA and another degree.

So seems to not hold me back.

Whyjustwhy123 · 10/02/2023 18:25

Praise be for technology, spell check and predictive text

Rainbow1901 · 10/02/2023 18:27

NEmama · 09/02/2023 06:58

He needs to read

^^ This !! Reading absolutely anything helps reinforce how things are spelt. Can be a book, newspaper, footy magazine or articles of interest on the web - if he's not a reader and never been one then this has contributed to his issues now.

TeenDivided · 10/02/2023 18:34

Rainbow1901 · 10/02/2023 18:27

^^ This !! Reading absolutely anything helps reinforce how things are spelt. Can be a book, newspaper, footy magazine or articles of interest on the web - if he's not a reader and never been one then this has contributed to his issues now.

Suggest you read the thread where people have explained that it is possible to be a reader and still not be able to spell...

Even just 2 posts, those 2 and 3 above yours.

Rainbow1901 · 10/02/2023 18:34

On another note if spelling is a major issue for him then ask the school's SEN department to test him. It will highlight where his issues are as in visual, memory or even understanding. Daft as it seems even reading the words using a colour membrane or printed on different coloured paper may help him see and understand what he is visually seeing and then converting that to improved spelling. I'm not an expert but did work in the SENCO/Exams administration office and if your son needs extra time in his GCSEs then time is of the essence here.

LadyMonicaBaddingham · 10/02/2023 18:36

Reading is the best way to improve spelling. There are other things that may help, but regular reading really is the answer.

babybythesea · 10/02/2023 18:43

Love that people are still advocating reading when it has been clearly shown it may not help!
My dd can just about remember words for a test but ask her a couple of days later and no chance! She is also severely dyslexic. She likes reading (a recent development) although it is an effort for her. But she can still, age 9, spell her name wrong if she’s not concentrating. And she’s definitely read the word a lot!

Newlifestartingatlast · 10/02/2023 18:44

LadyMonicaBaddingham · 10/02/2023 18:36

Reading is the best way to improve spelling. There are other things that may help, but regular reading really is the answer.

No, really, it isnt
read my post
youre just making assumptions based on how you know how to spell words.
as I and other posters have pointed out a number of times

reading improves your vocabulary, enriches your life, broadens your horizons, teaches you stuff…that’s more than enough incentive to read…learning to spell isn’t one of the outcomes for large numbers of people

Newlifestartingatlast · 10/02/2023 19:05

CecilyP · 09/02/2023 10:31

Well sadly, reading is the key. Being exposed to words every day is how to learn and memorise and visualise them. It’s a shame when kids don’t read, it’s such an enriching, lifelong pastime.

No that is how we, the good spellers, learn how to spell. Because we have strong visual memory. Often this is what poor spellers lack so need to do more specific and focused work on spelling patterns.

See my post…you are being very simplistic to think there is only one kind of visual memory and therefore if you read a lot you’ll remember spellings…for some people yes, but not for other, as I said in my earlier post that you clearly didn’t read

I have an incredibly strong visual memory and that visual memory is about seeing placement.
when I learn stuff I put it in boxes in my head ( or even paper first)…I can then recall by seeing that information by going to place I’ve put it and looking at it. I also have to use this for processing audio information, at work f someone came to me with a problem ( I was a technical leader), as they were giving me all he information I was drawing it out into boxes , at own, circles etc- live mine mapping.

im a chemist and trained to have good spatial awareness and visualisation- all that rotating of long chain polymer isotopes.

BUT
it does not help me with spelling..I can see all the words I need to use, recall a great swathe of vocabulary f I’m 55 years of avid reading, but can only see the overall shape of each blocks of letters ( eg the whole word). It’s like I can’t focus in on all the small squiggly letters.

my issue is actually caused by an incredibly visual memory…but that’s not the same as a more photographic visual memory that you seem to describe

Our brains, memories are incredibly complex and vary between people.We learn in different ways. You can’t get someone whose brain just doesn’t process information in a given way to memorise stuff by stamping your feet and repeating “ well sadly, the key is reading”;🤦‍♀️

Ijustpopped · 10/02/2023 19:15

I use a really effective method with my 8 year old. We go for a nice walk and as we walk, we clap out the syllables from his spellings homework and then we spell them together. He has a go first, and if he makes mistakes we work on them, and then we repeat repeat repeat as we walk around. He's been getting full marks on his spelling tests ever since and he is dyslexic. Kids need to move.

CecilyP · 10/02/2023 20:02

LadyMonicaBaddingham · 10/02/2023 18:36

Reading is the best way to improve spelling. There are other things that may help, but regular reading really is the answer.

If reading is the answer, please read the other posts in the thread before coming out with this wrong advice!

Floofyduffypuddy · 10/02/2023 20:12

I was an amazing reader and the words just made sense very very early in no one taught me. I just remembered my mum reading this book to me and it just made sense.

Had anyone thrust phonics on me and made a barrier for me that would have killed off reading.

I can't spell either.

I'm extremely well read.

The way I taught my daughter however wouid have made sense to me.

Root words and suffix etc

Waitingforthetulipstoarrive · 10/02/2023 20:24

🙋‍♀️ Another person with dyslexia right here who can read just fine but can't spell.

Reading doesn't improve spelling for all. Stop sticking everyone in a box.

Floofyduffypuddy · 10/02/2023 20:26

It's such an ill informed thing to keep trotting out.

My dd went from zero. Speller to 8 and more with the method I described and she doesn't read much.
She's finished two books in about 10 months

harrassedmumto3 · 10/02/2023 21:16

SOS: Simultaneous Oral Spelling.

Get hold of a common words spelling booklet (first 300 words at least) or else focus on the words he's struggling with.

On a whiteboard or piece of paper, you PRINT the word at the top. In cursive (joined handwriting), he writes the word three times, saying each letter as he goes. Finish by saying the word.
Then turn over the whiteboard/paper, and he repeats the process without looking at the word.
You repeat this process on 3 separate occasions until he can spell the word unaided. Keep revisiting until he's 'got it'.
You can SOS 3 or 4 words at the same time.
Cursive handwriting improves muscle memory, as does saying the letter at the same time.

Mnemonics are another good technique. I worked with a dyslexic child who couldn't remember how to spell 'great'. In the end, she remembered it as 'gifted readers eat any tacos' Grin

I work in Education - or did until recently - in a specialist Literacy & Dyslexia team.

I

materialgworl · 11/02/2023 06:17

Reading widely. Not just school books. Literally anything from takeaway menu to newspaper

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