STILL making money from slavery?

[4plusthehound]

AIBU here?

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/04/british-slave-owners-family-apologise-reparations-trevelyans

It seems so craven

Thank you, do people honestly not know this!

This is why this whole project seems self serving to me.

This journalist wrote a book about her ancestors in 2007.

Surely then she realized her bloodline?

She has Winchester on the other side and wrote a book about them too. The rifle company whose gun was used to slaughter Indians. I wonder if any money is given to them or is it not trendy enough?

What is confusing to me is the utter contempt with which people respond when transatlantic slavery is brought up.

Get over it

Move on

Far worse has happened/is happening

Etc etc

The same is not said when other atrocities are discussed.

Conflating the transatlantic slave trade with the entire historical concept of slavery without nuance is both confusing and infuriating to me and suggests that people often don't know much about the transatlantic slave trade beyond the fact that there's were giant ships involved. I'm not sure why I'm even raising an eyebrow though, this conversation often follows the same track on this site. Depressing.

I take your point @JoonT but my post is less about the history of slavery etc and more about the fact that this journalist is still benefiting from it by writing a book, making a documentary and bring lots of attention to a fairly meagre donation.

It is taught in schools. I cover it very quickly but we did. My children have covered it in more depth.

It usually ignores the Arab slave trade which went on longer, moved more people and was also brutal. Also ignore other history of slave trading and other forms.

Often ignores only Empire to abolish slavery I believe and then try and impose it on other was British Empire and money and resources were expended to do so - Georgian England basically bought the remains slaves - compensating the slave owners which is distasteful to modern ears but did free the slaves and running the The West Africa Squadron - and then ordinary people you refused to buy sugar and Manchester mills Manchester support for cotton embargo - enough probably not but more nuanced than white bad attidtue that seem to go along with reparation demands.

It ignore the African countries/tribes that got wealthy of the trade - and were ones doing the kidnapping. Ignore the detrimental affects their behavior had on continent - meant everyone had to spend on military rather than tech or art.

It ignore modern day slavery that included in the USA - A nationwide movement hopes to close the ‘slavery loophole’ that enables the exploitation of 800,000 prisoners in the US

I do think attempts to cover it have gain apace in last few years.

Personally I'm not sure about this because it's this family money and they can do what they want with it - if they do feel some generational guilt well that's how they feel- and maybe some good can be done with the money.

YYY, @JenniferBarkley

"The judgement of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson"

The Trevelyans were clearly an odious family. But they weren't alone.

@4plusthehound yes we can make the link between the past and present relating to wealth - that I wasn’t disputing. But to claim the only reason they are currently well to do is because of slavery is narrow minded. There are many circumstances that would be at play and the fact is the current generations of those families have nothing to do with historic slavery and should not be held accountable for it. It is not their sins to pay for. If it came to light those people are still using and benefiting from slavery in the current day then that is an entirely different story and they should be held accountable for that.

I think it’s on the population to petition the government to apologise for the past, it should not be on individual families themselves. I also object to Europe and Britain taking the sole blame on slavery, as others have pointed out there was a lot of countries that benefited from this, including those in Africa and the Middle East.

You can absolutely compare the two. Both caused mass death, destruction and harm worldwide. Length of time does not mean anything in either case. I’d argue mass genocide is a hell of a lot worse, as many people that lost their lives through slavery and through the transportation process it was not intended to eliminate an entire population of people.

I do apologise regarding the comment on Jewish people not calling for reparations though, I did not know the Israeli government was calling for reparations from newer generations of Germans - and I do believe this is wrong too unless said family members were directly involved in the holocaust.

Point taken WeDon't... I am seeing a different balance to you then.

>The same is not said when other atrocities are discussed.

Increasing happening with the Holocaust.

I take your point JoonT but my post is less about the history of slavery etc and more about the fact that this journalist is still benefiting from it by writing a book, making a documentary and bring lots of attention to a fairly meagre donation.

Well maybe some good can be done with the money - many denotations have more than one reason behind them often good PR.

As for writing about it and documentary - well if helps teach more people about the history hard to argue it's a bad thing.

Making money part - it's often why people write books and make programs - perhaps exploiting their family history isnt most tasteful way to do so given they made money from this trade.

Exactly right @WeDontTalkAboutBrunoNoNoNo

To those saying get over it, move on - reparations to slave owners only finished being paid in 2015. This is not a dim, distant chapter

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/30/fact-check-u-k-paid-off-debts-slave-owning-families-2015/3283908001/

and in the 180+ years since abolition, that money has grown in the pockets of those who received it, while those whose misery their wealth is built on have had no money pumped into their families

why should it be forgotten? It has never been made right and the repercussions are here, today, right now

They do know this but they also ask what other historic inequalities affecting other populations might exist. Is there only one acceptable way to think about how inherited wealth and societal inequality has come about?

On historical restitutions.

1492, when apart from someone sailing the ocean blue and being a player in the story that led to many of the things being discussed here, the Jews were expelled from Spain.

2015 to 2018 (with some extensions for applications in the pipeline and pandemic delays) saw a window for their ancestors to apply for Spanish citizenship. There were hoops. These included challenging documentation requirements and proficiency in Spanish. It always struck me as an odd nod to past wrongs as it was so time-limited.

Portugal passed a similar law, but I don't know how that played out.

I agree entirely with @WeDontTalkAboutBrunoNoNoNo
the magnitude and scale and ongoing generational harm & institutionalised prejudice is staggering and perhaps that’s why some people don’t get, it’s unfathomable. The idea that other Africans and/or tribes was somehow instrumental in the level of this injustice knowingly, is not true. As we can all agree, slavery has and continues to exists for many many hundreds of years but the Transatlantic Slave Trade, is whole different beast!

I agree somewhat that there probably is a level of virtue signalling from this family but I’d much rather that than calls to “move on”. Hopefully, other families can be shamed into doing the same. Reparations are never going to be paid to individuals but maybe it will allow for some respectful acknowledgment of the barbaric history of these families and the ongoing benefits of that and funds to help victims suffering other forms of slavery happening today.

What is confusing to me is the utter contempt with which people respond when transatlantic slavery is brought up.

Perhaps you are confused because there is no contempt? Just a less emotive discussion style.

It is not their sins to pay for. If it came to light those people are still using and benefiting from slavery in the current day then that is an entirely different story and they should be held accountable for that.

In my opinion Trevelyan is still using and benefiting from slavery today - this book is case in point.

Basically it's people who have never owned slaves paying people who have never been slaves.
Where will it all end? Can I have compensation for the fact that my great grandparents were working from the age of 8? And surely the families of those small children sent up chimneys would have something to say

Agreed.

Understood. I'm aware that we're still in a place of inflammatory comments being made about the atrocities of the holocaust for sure. It feels (speaking generally of course) like these tend to be very gross, ignorant and xenophobic comments more so than telling people to blithely get over it. None of it is acceptable.

I have explained my confusion clearly. Please do not attempt to gaslight me.

Another one agreeing that reparation should be split between historic and modern given people are still being trafficked, brutalised and enslaved.

In terms of the 300 or more years of the Golden Triangle trade, are people pursuing the Portuguese, Dutch, French and Spanish? Ghana has two major ports from which slaves were shipped, but very few local records but someone was bringing the people in. The whole of the west coast was involved as were Arab traders in East and North Africa.

Landowners throughout Europe had serfs until the C16 - people with no rights. As someone upthread has said, it was not great to be a child, woman or man in 19C British mines or an agricultural labourer or working in the cotton mills.

Have we OP?

How old are you and what's your line of work?

Have you asked what slavery means to Uber drivers, Deliveroo riders or small businesses selling on on-line platforms having 20% taken of what they make?

There are real issues affecting people as we speak, and none of them are driven by 'evil UK people or ancestors'

If you want to 'ponder' and write about stuff that you find 'fascinating', why don't you start with the above? Of course that won't please the woke crowd and 'grants' won't land on your lap

Am I going to be paid reparations for my data being harvested every day? I am doing unpaid, forced labour after all

I didn't say it wasn't taught in schools.

Also, no school I've ever taught in has ever taught in has ever presented the transatlantic slave trade as reductively as big bad europeans.

I was referring specifically to this thread and the all too common notion that the transatlantic slave trade is something to just "get over".

I also object to Europe and Britain taking the sole blame on slavery, as others have pointed out there was a lot of countries that benefited from this, including those in Africa and the Middle East.

We clean our own houses. You do not say "my neighbor's house is filthy so I won't clean mine".