Return train tickets to be scrapped

[Bucketheadbucketbum]

Yet more punishment for rail users

Back to the car for me!

I've just checked and yes, that's a day return. Sorry, when you search on the Scotrail website, you check a box that says "open return" if you don't want to specify a return time. It only says "day return" when you click through to purchase it.

@DdraigGoch the journey I'm talking about is a partial journey on a much longer cross-country line. I often use the same line to travel further afield so maybe that is what has confused me re the terminology.

@HellcatSpangledShalalala well I clearly don't know what you were trying to say do I? Because I read it as you agreeing with the posters saying fares will be doubling as that's the direct point I was responding to. But you have now made clear that you were talking more generally and saying, as it is a tory policy it will probably screw people over. Which is something I can agree with although I still maintain people should wait until they know the facts before they start getting irate.

If everyone waited until government policy was fully announced to contact their MPs when there are terrible idesa being hinted at, then nothing would change- because then the government would fear being accused of doing a U turn. We need to write to our MPs now.

My biggest issue with train prices is the fact that at weekends, Greater Anglia is AWAYS rail replacement services and has been for literally years. So instead of getting a train where we can get up and move around, have toilets that we can use, comfortable seats (ish), and a chance to visit the catering trolley to get a drink or a snack, we're forced onto a bus which takes twice the amount of time that the train takes and is considerably worse standards. Yet they don't charge less money for the poorer service.

This is why we no longer take the train. It's too unreliable. Greater Anglia are either late, or we've had experiences where we've gone Ipswich-London and been chucked off at Colchester because "they didn't have enough guards on the train". Getting money back for a paid-for service is a joke - they won't give you money back, instead they give a voucher.

Last year in half term I looked at taking my daughter to London for the day with my mum. The price was insane - talking £120+ for a return for 2 adults and a child for a 1hr 10min journey. In the end, we decided to park at Westfield Stratford for £16 and pay for the premier inn (£59) and stay overnight. It literally should not be cheaper to pay for a hotel than it is to use the train.

What is the rationale for this?

We've moved, I note, from Tory policy being 'there should be a free market, no nationalised businesses, no statre control' - to a Soviet-style 'we've decided to determine ticket pricing at government level'.

In case it helps anyone to find time- I have written to my MP to say that:

I am very concerned about the financial, environmental and social exclusion cost of the proposed removal of return train fares as reported in the media today.

Basic train travel can not become less affordable. We are in a cost of living crisis. Staff and customers can’t access businesses if return train travel becomes unaffordable. How does the government plan to mitigate the economic and social exclusion and avoidable poverty that a lack of affordable public transport will cause?

Why given in the climate crisis are the government apparently planning to disincentivise train travel? Air pollution in the UK has resulted in directly attributable deaths and a huge burden of ill health on people and families, and the NHS. We already have had the national shame of the tragic death of young Ella Adoo-Kissi-Debrah. The government and the public know well that encouraging additional car traffic kills children, elderly people and anyone with breathing issues. We can’t afford policies that encourage this.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56801794.amp

Please do everything that you can to oppose any proposed loss of affordable train travel. We do not want to lose train service frequency, nor the quality and quantity of staffing at stations and on trains (essential for passenger safety and confidence and access to trains for disabled and elderly passengers).

Rail fares need to become cheaper, not more expensive for passengers for the UK’s economic recovery. Thank you for your response.

Just reminded me of my S level history

one of the questions was "in the final analysis, all governments are oligarchic". The answer is of course yes, but I had to write an essay! 😂

CurrentHun we really are in a trap. You - and maybe other posters - genuinely don't seem to know this is deliberate. I'm not able to say more for fear of being banned for misinformation or some such. It's so weird.

Trainline does similar. The number of times where I've had to charge people because they thought they had an open return but TL had mislead them...

1. It may be more effort / work if you have to buy 2 separate tickets rather than just one
2. The plans may exclude those who don't take a mobile around with them - mine usually stays at home and I don't really use apps on it and things like that and I like paper ticket

Ironically BR, though nationalised was just handed its (miserly) sum of money each year and told to get on with running the railway. Despite the poor funding it was reasonably competent at doing so Under this so-called privatisation Whitehall micromanages everything with appalling incompetence.

That’s what the govt is saying. This govt… no way in hell that two singles will be price of return. Unless maybe for one single day. Then the prices will increase. Completely transparent strategy to increase prices. Proposed by Grant Shapps for gods sake. Tells you all you need to know.

Oh, well, that's ok then.

You must have been born yesterday. Probably this morning

The main thing that puts me off train travel (really!) is the complexity of purchasing tickets and the stress involved in checking all the possible ways I might buy them in all the possible permutations from all the possible providers, on the off-chance there's a significant price penalty/discount depending on how I do it. For me it needs to be plain and simple and without so many choices.

I can't be the only person overwhelmed by the number of choices I have to make in everyday life now, just to avoid feeling like I've been a mug and paid more than I need to for something. Home, car, and other insurance, all my utilities, mortgage and bank account and loans and savings, mobile, TV, broadband, streaming services, pay for car park by app or phone or little round pieces of metal, buy a season pass or PAYG for tolls and gym and televised sports, and on and on and on. And with a lot of these things, especially stuff like fancy gym memberships or mobile phone contracts, the prices are opaque and you have to haggle if you don't want to be ripped off and you never get to feel sure you're not being taken for a ride.

I know that these complex systems with loads of choices supposedly allow people to pick what's best for them, and let those who have the need and the inclination spend the time it takes to get the best deal, but I just can't handle trying to make sure I'm buying the right thing in the right way all the time to minimise my spend, so I'm probably paying just as much as I would have back when you paid the water board whatever they told you your water cost, you paid BT whatever they told you your phone cost, and you paid whatever the TV licence was, and there weren't all these fucking DECISIONS and research to do.

If they can make buying train tickets simple and easy and so that they just cost what they cost and there's no research and price comparison bollocks to stress about, then I'm for the changes.

@EmmaEmerald guildford to London is about 60km. Sydney suburb to city is 23km, so it should be £9 if we’re applying the same costing. But instead it’s £30.

It sounds beneficial to me, always weird it barely costs more for a return. I often do single trips. Usually 2 x advance singles are cheaper than a return anyway.

I agree with you that the govt need to communicate better with the public. But the public also need to change. They need to not just accept news from one source which will have their own preferred spin on it.

I don't think you can blame to public for the government's ridiculous method of "leak a half story and wait til everyone has their own take on it and then release the actual policy". You can't (reasonably) get annoyed at people forming an opinion based on a headline when the headline is all they have access to.

If your target audience is regularly misunderstanding your message then any half-competent person / organisation would look to change themselves, not blame the audience.

The whole ticketing thing needs reviewing. Sometimes singles are cheaper than a return. Sometimes they are not. Sometimes it is cheaper to go further. I think one great saving that will be missed will be end of the day return. Spontaneous travel on a nice day, when you have a day off will become a thing of the past.

meanwhile the railway companies are getting government subsidies and paying shareholders as a result of your hard earned cash.

I hate it when I buy a one way ticket and pay the same or only slightly less than a return. Reducing the price of single tickets seems much fairer to me if that is what they are doing.

@ancientgran - You think they will reduce prices of singles 😂😂😂?

I also agree with everyone up thread who has said that it’s waaaaayy too complex. It really is. I want to just turn up and buy the cheapest ticket for that particular service.
Trying to work out what tf ticket my son needs for a day trip into London, using the tube but only a couple of stops is mental.
I agree with this for everything - the amount of choices for every single fuckin thing drives me round the bend.

Won't directly affect me, as the two times I've resorted to using a train this year have put me off from ever trying it again.

Coventry to Bradford - 3 trains, took 5 hours and cost £135, driving would have taken 2hr15-2hr30.

Bradford to manchester (ironically to collect my new car) Took 3 1/2 hours door-to pickup and cost £48. The return drive took 55minutes and cost £4.

@Redflower2 We moved to one of the big former Greater Manchester mill towns....point taken on describing it as almost unliveable - I should have added "for us at the moment", as it does sound a bit dramatic, but I'd been looking forward to it so much, having remembered the north as friendly and pleasant and with plenty of space and decent-ish public transport.

I was warned a bit, but I thought people were exaggerating. So it's really come as a bit of a shock to discover just how neglected this part of the country has been for the last 15-20 years (even worse than the north east in some ways, where I grew up, though the population on the east side of the Pennines is generally a lot lower and the towns and cities are a bit further apart whereas Greater Manchester to Liverpool is all crammed in together).

And the state of the public transport is jaw dropping. We chose to move to our current address as, on paper, it would have been about a 45-60 minute journey to work for me on the days I can't WFH. It regularly ends up being 2 to 2.5 hours in either direction, which is just not sustainable. I can actually fly to Bristol in less time than that, including the trip to Manchester airport!

And yes, I know it's winter and that's always the worst time of year. I suppose in parts of the south the weather does compensate for a lot (and yes, plenty of neglected and run down towns in the West Country too...)

So long as a single is actually half the current return, I welcome it
I have always found it really unfair a day return is not 24 H

You go into town 7am and home at 1am you are fine on a day return
You go into town 7pm and home at 2pm you are technically not so pay nearly double.