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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the guy who sexually harassed me should have been fired?

26 replies

goodmorningsunny · 04/02/2023 07:39

When I was 23, I was harassed by a coworker for about 6 months. Let's call him "Tony". At first, he didn't do anything too aggressive, just made comments and followed me around, lurking. He was always there when I turned around. He'd make comments like "you look so innocent, it's always the innocent ones who are most devilish" and when he asked if I had a boyfriend and I said yes, he said "you look like a girl who likes multiple men at once" with a wink. I once came into work without make up and he asked me in a panic 3 times why I wasn't wearing makeup, as though he was personally offended. He'd leave me little unwanted gifts on my desk. That sort of stuff. I complained to his managers but they said it was just cultural because he was Italian and I should be more sensitive. I was young and just thought that clearly I was the problem here.

A few months in, I realised my other male coworkers were treating me strangely. They would avoid talking to me or looking me in the eyes. I couldn't understand why. It turned out, Tony had been telling any male colleague who would listen that he and I had been having sex. And aggressive sex at that. They sort of believed I was some sex crazed freak. I was not having sex with him. I didn't even know him. I tried my hardest to avoid him and I was scared of him.

When I found out, it all made sense and I completely broke down because I felt like I'd been a mad woman all that time, making a big deal out of nothing, when actually, he had been hunting me the whole time. It seemed to me that he had the attitude of "if I can't have her, then I'll mark my territory so no one else can".

HR were good. They went around and got statements off everyone and told them it was false. It was so strange when I went into work and all the men were talking to me again.

Tony didn't get fired. He got training. He did later get fired for lying on his application to work there. I had already moved on by then.

I found out I wasn't even the first girl he had done this to. I was the third. He had started the following of a 16 year old apprentice, who freaked out and moved jobs. He did it to a receptionist who also asked to be transferred to a different building.

At the time I just thought "that's the way it is, thank god they helped me". Now that I have a daughter, I'm so mad that happened to me. Surely, the guy should have been fired. How can men get away with this crap time and time again?!

I think he should have been fired the first time but this was clearly not company policy.

AIBU for thinking sexual harassment if a fireable offence??? Or is it something we should be training men out of, at the expense of female workers??? I'm genuinely interested to hear if perhaps the law says that he was entities to second and third chances.

OP posts:
catgirl1976 · 04/02/2023 07:44

Yes he should have been fired. Employers have a duty to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace and if they had reasonable evidence it had occurred they should have sacked him. How long ago did this take place?

Sorry this happened to you

Karwomannghia · 04/02/2023 07:45

Of course! How awful.

YoungMouse · 04/02/2023 07:49

Erm, I've worked with 3 Italian men and none of them were like this. Way to tar a whole nation, well done management! Sorry this happened to you OP. This should have been investigated properly.

custardbear · 04/02/2023 07:49

Hideous! Yes absolutely sacked!

Mindymomo · 04/02/2023 07:51

If he was fired, he would only do it again at his next workplace. I would hope if it happens to anyone they would report it to the Police and they can take it further. Only the HR dept can tell you why they did what they did and presume that training was the first step forward in his case.

Hadalifeonce · 04/02/2023 07:57

It would be too outing to detail what I did to someone after I warned them not to touch me again.
HR got involved, turned out he was doing it to others too, but they were too scared to speak up, until word got around about my interaction with him. He disappeared quite quickly.

Moidershewrote · 04/02/2023 07:59

Sorry this happened to you OP, it sounds awful and frightening.

You’d like to think he would be fired these days - but who knows.

I suffered a similar-ish situation at my workplace when I was about 27y, with a Spanish bloke. He wasn’t harassing me in the office thankfully but after a work night out I had a few people (men/women) back to my flat, everyone slowly left except him. After which he was incredibly intense and pushing me to have sex with him after we had a snog. I was tipsy but not drunk iykwim and was very clear that sex wasn’t going to happen. He wouldn’t stop pressuring so I repeatedly asked him to leave, it was quite scary but he did leave in the end (in a massive strop and accusing me of being a tease…). As soon as we were at work the following week, everyone was treating me differently and very soon I realised he had told everyone I had slept with him. He then proceeded to try and ostracise me from the whole team, making out I was a total bitch and whenever he got the chance to tell me he HATED me, if others weren’t listening he did. It was awful and I wish I had reported him.

Another time when I was about 21-22y I split up with a chap I’d been seeing for about 3 months. He kept turning up outside my workplace (telesales office) and harassing me to talk / get back with him, it was scary as I didn’t finish until 9.30pm and it was dark / quiet ish road. One time he let himself into the office to find me and walked around and left something on my desk(!) - by chance I wasn’t at my desk when it happened. But everyone in my office was saying he must really love me and I should give him a chance!

I look back now (in my 40’s) and feel so much rage at these entitled pieces of shit. How dare they!

Devoutspoken · 04/02/2023 08:02

It doesn't say much for the other male colleagues either, if they treated you differently in any way

JumboShrimp · 04/02/2023 08:07

Hideous! Why do men hate us so much?

OntarioBagnet · 04/02/2023 08:10

I don’t know how long ago it was but sadly this sort of shit used to be quite common. I’ve worked in two very male dominated environments when I was in my early 20s and was spoken to openly sexually all the time. Comments about my tits, my sex life, how good they thought I’d be in bed. I’d like to think it would be treated more seriously now.

plumduck · 04/02/2023 08:12

How long ago was this? Even 15 years ago people didn't take it as seriously

mozzyworries · 04/02/2023 08:13

This is appalling! Your company massively failed you by not taking proper action. I'm so sorry this happened to you.

OtherOtter · 04/02/2023 08:28

Back in the 90s. We had a situation like this, guy was a temp. He made comments to anyone he was sitting beside, he did it to a 16-year-old - disgusting jokes...just awful, I stepped in and reported him to the department manager.
I moved departments and the guy was offered a permanent job.
A woman from his dept came to me in tears - she was an older lady, very quiet softly spoken, incredibly introverted - the comments from this pig had not stopped and she had to sit next to him and did not know where to turn. So I went to HR this time - all guns blazing, no surprise my manager had not made them aware of the previous occasion - they said they couldn't do much because it was his first offence, so it was viewed as a minor offence - how many times do you need to sexually harass someone? It freaked out the other guys in the office who felt they didn't know where the line was, I used to go to the pub with them and we'd have a laugh and they were shitting themselves that I'd report them but the kind of shit he said. I left the company soon after that.

OtherOtter · 04/02/2023 08:34

About 15 years ago dh investigated reports of sexual harassment in the work place by member of staff who used to send obsence emails, frequently make suggestive actions to new members of staff. Two things happened to prevent dh from sanctioning the member of staff - the women who complained declined to make it formal as they felt their careers would be blighted by the incident. The sexual harrasser resigned and he went off to work in another company with a clean record - very frustrating.

MistletoeandBaileys · 04/02/2023 08:35

OP this is awful and I’m so sorry this happened you. We all have a story and it’s so disgusting that men are so fucking protected.

I remember years ago this guy used to get the same trains as me to and from college. (Small area so saw the same people everyday) I was maybe 22 and he was mid 30’s. He used to follow me around the train station. If I stood at one end of the station he would come and stand beside me. If I moved he would follow.

He tried striking up conversation and I would move away I was genuinely anxious something would happen. I used to try and stand with others in the hopes he would stop.

A friend of mines cousin was at the train station one day and he witnessed it and went up and said something to the guy. And stayed with me until we got off the train again back home. And after that it stopped but it was nearly a year of being followed about and made to feel uneasy.

FinallyHere · 04/02/2023 15:58

after a work night out I had a few people (men/women) back to my flat, everyone slowly left except him.

This is very poor by your colleagues. They should not have left you along without checking whether that was what you wanted.

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/02/2023 16:02

A very similar thing happened to me in the 90s @goodmorningsunny. He didn't get fired either, despite the fact there was another victim as well.

goodmorningsunny · 05/02/2023 07:13

Thanks everyone. This was about 7/8 years ago now. I still work in the same city and am literally still scared to this day of seeing him out and about, because the fear from those 6 months of stalking is still so present.

I hope things are different these days. I hope someone would have protected me if it had happened these days.

OP posts:
Keepyourmummysboys · 05/02/2023 07:19

You’re in your thirties and still scared of him? I’d seek some therapy and try to get past that. You don’t need to live in fear like this.

he sounds like a twat, he should have been fired, it’s irrelevant he is Italian.

GreenBiscuitr · 05/02/2023 08:32

I was in a similar position OP some years back, I was the victim of an extremely violent attack (which stopped short of physical). The police came & chased him down the motorway as he'd stolen some of my belongings. They couldn't prosecute because he hadn't actually touched me. I had to walk away from my work because our employer didn't want to know as it happened outside work hours. I did a Claire's law after that and found out he'd already been prosecuted once and had a lifetime restraining order.

CircleofWillis · 05/02/2023 09:12

Keepyourmummysboys · 05/02/2023 07:19

You’re in your thirties and still scared of him? I’d seek some therapy and try to get past that. You don’t need to live in fear like this.

he sounds like a twat, he should have been fired, it’s irrelevant he is Italian.

Her age and how long ago it happened has no relevance. He is a predator who was never sanctioned for what he did and she was not supported or protected. He lives in the same city and there is a very real possibility that she will one day bump into him unexpectedly. Of course she is worried about that ever happening.

FindingMeno · 05/02/2023 09:20

I was sexually harassed at work over 20 years ago.
I left and claimed constructive dismissal owing to sexual harassment at tribunal.
He was sacked and I was compensated for the loss of my job.
I made them have to listen to me - they had no choice.

Sapphire387 · 05/02/2023 10:27

YANBU.

It sounds like management should have been much stricter with him, much sooner. Being Italian (or any other nationality) does not excuse him. That's a bit like saying that a man from Afghanistan can lock his wife in the house in the UK, as it's just a cultural thing. It's still not right.

Excuse me while I put my work hat on (I'm a trade union official)... The point of early intervention in these instances is to protect the victim(s) and also stop it getting to a stage where anyone needs to be sacked (speaking pragmatically). Obviously there are some behaviours where a swift dismissal is needed because it's instantly that serious. It sounds like he had been doing this to other people at a low level - if management had dealt with that properly, he may very well not have targeted you. As things were, with the number of occasions and the severity, I think he should have been sacked, yes.

I'm sorry this happened to you, I really am. It's shit and it still happens too often. I work with people in an industry where women often tell me they are still too frightened for their careers / professional reputations to 'make a fuss'. It breaks my heart, some of the cases I have heard.

P.S. do think about joining a union, I might be biased but I like to think we are good at supporting people through these situations. We do take cases to tribunal where necessary. You can also report workplace harassment to the police - there's no such thing as it only being a 'workplace matter'.

follygirl · 05/02/2023 18:30

My first job after Uni was in the commercial department of an aggregates company so pretty much a male sales force.

I used to help the Sales Manager run training sessions which ran over 2 days so involved staying overnight in a hotel.

On one of the courses I remember chatting to the sales team about Christmas as it was in December and one of them was telling me what he was buying for his kids etc. I was agreeing how magical that time of year is etc.
Anyway later on the evening while I was in my room the same guy who must have been in his 40s knocked on my door and asked if he could have 'coffee'.

I told him where to go and reported it to the Sales Manager although I don't really know what happened after that.

Afterwards I kept thinking about my behaviour in the bar when I was socialising with the guys and wondering if I had given him the wrong idea. Of course I hadn't but that's how I felt. This was about 30 years ago.

Eyerollcentral · 05/02/2023 18:41

Yes it was sexual harassment but I’m surprised this is still having the level of impact you describe when this happened 7 - 8 years ago.

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