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Original poster

Dumbledore

47 replies

TheEverdelightfulsamantha · 03/02/2023 15:37

I’m just watching Harry Potter and the Goblet of fire with DD - I’ve been reading the book to her so it’s front of mind but I can’t get over how horrible Dumbledore is when played by Michael Gambon - it’s a totally different character to the kindly but wise character in the books - and the way it’s narrated in the Stephen Fry audiobooks - am I wrong? Am I missing something in the book? And if I’m not, why did JKR approve it?

OP posts:
Skinnermarink · 03/02/2023 15:42

MG made a big thing about not reading the books (he was cast quite late wasn’t he because first choice Dumbledore sadly died) so he could come at the character completely from his own creation I think.

But it’s a harsh, manipulative and emotionally abusive Dumbledore and I do not like it.

DIDYOUPUTYOURNAMEINTHEGOETOFFIREHARRY??????

Dumbledore said calmly 😐

RDAnna · 03/02/2023 15:42

Doesn't get get more badass as the books go on though? I think that's what the film version shows a bit more. Less twinkly eyes and more raging.

JenniferBarkley · 03/02/2023 15:43

The Dumbledore in the books is ultimately pretty awful to Harry though. He's not a benign figure.

Allytheapple · 03/02/2023 15:44

JenniferBarkley · 03/02/2023 15:43

The Dumbledore in the books is ultimately pretty awful to Harry though. He's not a benign figure.

Absolutely agree. He lacks much care for Harry or empathy for Harry’s past.

Skinnermarink · 03/02/2023 15:45

JenniferBarkley · 03/02/2023 15:43

The Dumbledore in the books is ultimately pretty awful to Harry though. He's not a benign figure.

This is true, and you realise it as you get older with the books. The subtlety of it is entirely lost in the film though.

FaoinDrualus · 03/02/2023 15:47

In book 1, page 1, he leaves baby Harry on a doorstep in the middle of the night. It was bloody November in the UK!! Didnt even ring the door bell. Not a nice man.

Original poster
TheEverdelightfulsamantha · 03/02/2023 15:51

I do get that, and what Aberforth says in book 7 is true to an extent - Harry is clearly a tool in a bigger fight - but he is never unkind to Harry face to face - even in the order of the Phoenix when he ignores Harry so Voldemort can’t read his mind… @Skinnermarink I didn’t know MG deliberately didn’t read the books, Richard Harris is much more the Dumbledore I see in the books….

and that section you quote - imagine if a real life headteacher did that… the Governor’s would get involved 😂

OP posts:
Original poster
TheEverdelightfulsamantha · 03/02/2023 15:52

@FaoinDrualus He does leave someone to watch him though… but that’s a good point

OP posts:
watchfulwishes · 03/02/2023 15:53

MG made a big thing about not reading the books ... so he could come at the character completely from his own creation I think I dislike this approach for adaptations of books, seems arrogant to ignore the author.

Latenightreader · 03/02/2023 15:53

When I read the books I was absolutely convinced that book seven would contain the revelation that Dumbledore was evil. He was certainly manipulative, but I was sure he was going to be shown as a bad’un.

TheHotdog · 03/02/2023 15:54

Dumbledore was not a good man. He was manipulative and basically raised Harry as a lamb to slaughter.

LadyHarmby · 03/02/2023 15:55

I don’t like the portrayal of Dumbeldore in the films. None of the humour whatsoever. In the books, he’s extremely funny.

LadyHarmby · 03/02/2023 15:56

TheHotdog · 03/02/2023 15:54

Dumbledore was not a good man. He was manipulative and basically raised Harry as a lamb to slaughter.

He knew, or at least had a strong theory, that Harry would survive so I don’t think that’s true.

JenniferBarkley · 03/02/2023 15:59

I enjoyed these:

www.buzzfeed.com/kellymartinez/dumbledore-harry-potter-tumblr

DewinDwl · 03/02/2023 16:02

Ah it's not a baby name thread. Good 😅

anyway... YANBU OP. The fourth film grates so badly for some many reasons (shouty Dumbledore, wrong colour dress for Hermione, all the long hair!). Dumbledore in general is manipulative and ruthless - even Snape was aghast at him! I too expected a big reveal that he had been a baddie all along. I mean he put Harry in a situation where he grew up neglected, and there is no way he didn't know about all the shit going on at Hogwarts (basilisk, possessed professor anyone?). It was refreshing to hear Aberforth having a go at him.

NotableSilences · 03/02/2023 16:04

I think MG was probably right to ignore the books -- Dumbledore in the series is an inconsistent and strangely-written character, who is at once the world's most powerful wizard, the single-handed vanquisher of the wizarding Hitler equivalent, a sort of dotty professor bumbling about telling bad jokes and losing his way to the loo at night, and an amoral, manipulative character who sets up a child as a sacrificial lamb.

I mean, I get that children's/YA books have to figure out a way of getting adults out of the way in order for the children to be centre stage, or to make them weak if they're not actually evil, but there's a real problem with Dumbledore's characterisation, and the kinds of gynmastics JKR puts herself through in order to make powerful adult witches and wizards (not just Dumbledore, but all the good, powerful magical characters) unable to save the world, while a child can.

thecatsthecats · 03/02/2023 16:12

RDAnna · 03/02/2023 15:42

Doesn't get get more badass as the books go on though? I think that's what the film version shows a bit more. Less twinkly eyes and more raging.

His raging is a very particular type of raging though - he faces down quite a lot of tight corners with twinkly eyed humour. For example, escaping the ministry from his office, and when Malfoy has him cornered.

I think Harry echoes this when he has his final confrontation with Voldemort. Not a stupid mad flying battle - a civil conversation.

Dumbledore isn't benign, but he doesn't have to be shouty. It's the dichotomy between his kindly grandfather persona and the master manipulator that makes him interesting.

minorproblem · 03/02/2023 16:23

FaoinDrualus · 03/02/2023 15:47

In book 1, page 1, he leaves baby Harry on a doorstep in the middle of the night. It was bloody November in the UK!! Didnt even ring the door bell. Not a nice man.

omfg. that has passed me by for decades!

MistletoeandBaileys · 03/02/2023 16:35

I always thought he was cruel to Harry. In the Philosophers Stone McGonegal even says that Harry should be with a magical family etc. He was raised clueless about his fate and as an adult I found that jarring to read!

I also think he would have quickly been able to find out if Sirius Black was or wasn’t involved in the murder of James and Lily. But for some reason the wise man that he was let Sirius rot away in Azkaban! (This irritates me no end)

And the treatment of Aberforth and Ariadne that comes out in the last book is awful and he clearly learned nothing from the sad death of his sister.

I do think Michael Gambon did a stellar job. Richard Harris was perfect for the first 2 movies 100% but for the grittier moments later on I think Michael Gambon was very good!

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 16:39

It's about sacrifice though.
Dumbledore sacrifices himself as well. He tells Harry to force him to drink that potion in the cave, and he tells snaps to kill him.

He's a spymaster, essentially, playing a long game.

Who would look for Harry in the home of his bigoted aunt? How better to protect him. It's the King Arthur story.

SummaLuvin · 03/02/2023 16:39

Skinnermarink · 03/02/2023 15:42

MG made a big thing about not reading the books (he was cast quite late wasn’t he because first choice Dumbledore sadly died) so he could come at the character completely from his own creation I think.

But it’s a harsh, manipulative and emotionally abusive Dumbledore and I do not like it.

DIDYOUPUTYOURNAMEINTHEGOETOFFIREHARRY??????

Dumbledore said calmly 😐

he wasn't out there acting all by himself. Directors and producers made choices and recommendations that led to that being the end result, ultimately I hold them as more responsible, Gambon didn't act the scene badly, he did it very well, the direction he was given was poor and inaccurate to the source material.

WeWereInParis · 03/02/2023 16:41

RDAnna · 03/02/2023 15:42

Doesn't get get more badass as the books go on though? I think that's what the film version shows a bit more. Less twinkly eyes and more raging.

I agree with the OP, but also with this point. I don't think the film dumbledore from the first two would have believably done the later stuff (the lake scene where he drinks the poison for example).

MilkyWaytoday · 03/02/2023 16:43

Young Dumbledore was fit though 😉

EveryDayIsA · 03/02/2023 16:49

Wasn't there a reason he had to stay at his aunts, I'm sure it's in the book. Something to do with family love or along those lines.

EveryDayIsA · 03/02/2023 16:51

Found it

' As Lily's last remaining blood relative, if Petunia were to take Harry in it would seal the enchantment and provide him with protection from Voldemort. This would last as long as he could call the place where his mother's blood existe '