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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To cancel my cleaner

64 replies

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 03/02/2023 12:09

I've been thinking about this for a while - it costs me almost £100 a month and I can do a better job myself. I had a different cleaner to begin with but she is now an area manager. I received this in my inbox today

RE: Rise in the Living Wage.
As you will probably be aware the National Living Wage is due to rise on the 1st April. It has always been our priority to reward our hardworking staff with a rise at this time of year to keep them in line with the National Living Wage.
Last year we only increased our prices by the wage increase despite the prospect of all other prices rising. The consumer price index has increased by 9.2% in the last 12 months, For us fuel has increased by 20% so with these increases in mind I have no choice but to increase our prices up too 11% from the 1st April.
If you pay by Direct Debit or you are a business that pays on invoice then this increase will be reflected in charges from your March invoice.
If you pay by standing order please find attached a S.A.E for the return of the enclosed form detailing your new monthly payment.
I would like to take the opportunity to wish you and your families well in this challenging period and to thank you for your loyal custom.

I'm not the employer of the cleaners, the agency is.

OP posts:
Original poster
ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 03/02/2023 13:24

StarsSand · 03/02/2023 12:37

The agency is entitled to raise their prices and I think they've explained well how they arrived at that decision.

If you don't want a cleaner anymore then cancel the service.

Some people consult the internet about the strangest decisions...

Yes, it is really strange, isn't it that there are forums for it, too!!!!

@SheWoreYellow I pay just short of £100 for four hours ie £25 an hour. It seems that the agency are passing on the employers' national insurance costs to the customers.

OP posts:
Coffeellama · 03/02/2023 13:26

YANBU… why are you doubting it? You don’t want to pay more and can do it yourself. What more do you need advice on?

SheWoreYellow · 03/02/2023 13:26

£25 an hour so that the cleaners can get £9.50?! Am I misunderstanding?

£25 is a lot. If you found an independent cleaner you could pay them £15 an hour and feel better about the whole thing?

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 03/02/2023 13:27

@MelchiorsMistress the definitions have changed somewhat. Nlm is the new nmw for over 23 years of age. As such it is law not something negotiable.
www.blandy.co.uk/about/news-and-insights/insights/new-minimum-wage-rates-to-take-effect-from-1-april-2023

Original poster
ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 03/02/2023 13:27

SheWoreYellow · 03/02/2023 13:26

£25 an hour so that the cleaners can get £9.50?! Am I misunderstanding?

£25 is a lot. If you found an independent cleaner you could pay them £15 an hour and feel better about the whole thing?

I don't know what the cleaners themselves receive, only what I pay.

OP posts:
SheWoreYellow · 03/02/2023 13:28

I was just using their reference to the living wage, to presume that’s what they pay. I’ve used the current one, not the one coming in April though.

Coffeellama · 03/02/2023 13:33

SheWoreYellow · 03/02/2023 13:28

I was just using their reference to the living wage, to presume that’s what they pay. I’ve used the current one, not the one coming in April though.

£9.50 is the national minimum wage, not national living wage.

starfishmummy · 03/02/2023 13:36

So you just have 4 hours a month of cleaning? I wouldn't bother with a cleaner for that at all

MRex · 03/02/2023 13:47

If you don't want a cleaner, then don't have one. Bitching about whether they deserve a living wage is disgraceful and you should be ashamed of your thought processes there.

If your concern were that the cleaners were being hard done by getting £9.50 and due to increase to £10.42, while you pay £25, then I could agree it's a high mark-up, but it is standard.

Shouldbesolucky · 03/02/2023 13:47

MelchiorsMistress · 03/02/2023 12:18

If you can do a better job yourself and you feel inclined to do your own cleaning, you’d be crazy to keep paying that much. I wouldn’t expect cleaners to earn as much as the living wage, especially when there are so many semi skilled jobs that only pay minimum wage or just over.

Really! What a bizarre opinion. Who else do you categorise as not being deserving of the NLW or is it just cleaners.

Its also illegal for employers to pay below those rates.

Original poster
ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 03/02/2023 14:08

MRex · 03/02/2023 13:47

If you don't want a cleaner, then don't have one. Bitching about whether they deserve a living wage is disgraceful and you should be ashamed of your thought processes there.

If your concern were that the cleaners were being hard done by getting £9.50 and due to increase to £10.42, while you pay £25, then I could agree it's a high mark-up, but it is standard.

@MRex Who is "bitching" about whether cleaners deserve a living wage? Because when you find out, direct your question to them and tell them how they should feel ashamed. As it certainly was NOT me who said it. Perhaps you need to read posts more thoroughly before you reply.

@starfishmummy 2 hours every other Tuesday morning. It's not really worth it. It used to be, but isn't now.

OP posts:
WeCome1 · 03/02/2023 14:14

Coffeellama · 03/02/2023 13:33

£9.50 is the national minimum wage, not national living wage.

Show quote history

What’s the difference? Not doubting you, just can’t see the difference by googling.

WeCome1 · 03/02/2023 14:16

MelchiorsMistress · 03/02/2023 12:18

If you can do a better job yourself and you feel inclined to do your own cleaning, you’d be crazy to keep paying that much. I wouldn’t expect cleaners to earn as much as the living wage, especially when there are so many semi skilled jobs that only pay minimum wage or just over.

Bear in mind the time lost travelling between jobs though. That makes the low wage even lower.

Original poster
ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 03/02/2023 14:24

WeCome1 · 03/02/2023 14:16

Bear in mind the time lost travelling between jobs though. That makes the low wage even lower.

Show quote history

I noticed this in the email from the agency:

For us fuel has increased by 20% so with these increases in mind I have no choice but to increase our prices up too 11% from the 1st April.

I'm not sure if they mean they are paying the cleaners more to cover the cost of their petrol, or if the agency are covering this. It's not clear, the email is not very well written, to be fair.

OP posts:
ittakes2 · 03/02/2023 14:27

If you are happy with your cleaner tell them you like them but the cost is too much at £25 an hour can the recommend someone else. They might offer to go direct to you. My cleaner with her boss's permission started up her own business (legally with tax and insurance etc).

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 03/02/2023 14:31

If the agency are actually employing your cleaner (not designating them as self employed and on zero hours contracts) then the £25 per hr will cover the NI, the insurance to put people in your home, the travel time, fuel and other expenses like cleaning products if supplied.

If the "employee" only get NMW and NI contributions then they are making a healthy profit.

If it's not value for money to you then cancel the service? They don't have a choice about NMW though, they have to pay it

ilovesooty · 03/02/2023 14:34

HerculesMulligan · 03/02/2023 12:26

God, this is so meanspirited and depressing. I'd like everyone to earn at least the living wage. I certainly couldn't begrudge it to someone working in my home. A decent cleaner is pretty skilled, I'd say.

OP, if you can't afford it or don't want to pay for it, cancel. I'm not sure why you need more input than that.

Show quote history

I agree. The living wage is £10.42 an hour from April. Very mean spirited to suggest cleaners don't deserve that. I pay mine £11.50 an hour and think she's worth more. I'll be happy to pay more if she puts her rate up this year.

Fleabigg · 03/02/2023 14:35

The National Living Wage is what the government now call the minimum wage for anyone over 23. I don’t want to contract with any company not paying its employees at least the minimum wage which is a legal requirement.

Obviously you don’t need permission to stop having a cleaner. What a strange thread. AIBU to keep not having a cleaner? AIBU not get takeaway tomorrow because I have the time and inclination to make our own tea?

ilovesooty · 03/02/2023 14:37

Sugarplumfairy65 · 03/02/2023 13:22

Everyone should be able to earn a living wage no matter what job they do.

Show quote history

Absolutely.

The OP isn't unreasonable to cancel if she's not happy with the work of course.

PortiasBiscuit · 03/02/2023 14:38

I pay my cleaner directly, £15 per hour. She earns her money and I am happy to pay it.

Original poster
ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 03/02/2023 14:39

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 03/02/2023 14:31

If the agency are actually employing your cleaner (not designating them as self employed and on zero hours contracts) then the £25 per hr will cover the NI, the insurance to put people in your home, the travel time, fuel and other expenses like cleaning products if supplied.

If the "employee" only get NMW and NI contributions then they are making a healthy profit.

If it's not value for money to you then cancel the service? They don't have a choice about NMW though, they have to pay it

I have no problem with a cleaner being paid NMW! That's not the issue. I imagine I will be paying £28+ an hour for a quick zip round, which is not what I want.

As a comparator I do mobile cat sitting, which includes medication and tons of other extras - plus the comparable fact I am trusted in someone's house, with keys etc. I probably charge too little, but it is much less than I pay out in cleaning.

It's up to the employer to pay NI employer contributions, not clients, AFAIAW.

OP posts:
TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 03/02/2023 14:46

It's up to the employer to pay NI employer contributions, not clients, AFAIAW.

Where do you think the money is magicked from exactly?

Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov · 03/02/2023 14:48

The clients have to cover all the costs. Otherwise it wouldn't be a business. They're saying last year the price increases reflected a wage increase and nothing else an led the absorbed all other cost increases. This year the price increase will reflect wage and other cost increases.

BaroldandNedmund · 03/02/2023 15:08

MelchiorsMistress · 03/02/2023 12:18

If you can do a better job yourself and you feel inclined to do your own cleaning, you’d be crazy to keep paying that much. I wouldn’t expect cleaners to earn as much as the living wage, especially when there are so many semi skilled jobs that only pay minimum wage or just over.

Are you joking? The reason cleaners earn more is because if they didn’t, they would choose to sit on a checkout at Tesco rather than lugging around heavy vacuums, racing around between houses and knackering their backs! Cleaning in an exhausting, unsustainable job.