To be worried about my neighbours?

[PonkyPonky]

Have long suspected neighbours are hoarders. They don’t go out, windows/curtains are never opened. They’re a bit strange but very pleasant people. But today they had a leak so asked DH to go round to have a look. He was horrified by what he found in there. It was the level of hoarding they make tv shows about and it was so dirty and mouldy, he could hardly stay long enough to look at the problem. He showed me a picture and I am genuinely concerned it’s a major fire hazard and we are attached. I also know they don’t do things like get boiler services etc because they understandably don’t want people in there. Now that we know for sure, I am more worried than ever and not sure if there is something I can do or should do. Any advice? They’ve never had any visitors but I occasionally hear the phone rings so I hope that means there’s someone out there caring about them.

My area now have a specific multi agency approach..so fire, LA (enviromental health and housing if a their tenant) adult social services and NHS mental/psychological services.
The first point of call is generally fire or adult social care. They trusted your husband enough to allow him in their property. Maybe you could ask them if they'd like you to see if you can get them some support. It's likely one partner will want this morecthan the hoarder themselves. If either of them have mobility problems or breathing condition etc it's a safe guarding concern. See if you can separate them so one of them is in agreement to you raising a concern. It might be useful to use the Clutter Index as a guide when speaking with services. I'd be mindful of saying you took photos though.

You tend to find extreme hoarders don't recognise they are hording or see it as a problem and are usually in denial. There's often mental illness associated with it as well. These possessions are often all they have in life and getting them to let go is notoriously difficult. I once helped clear some stuff from a hoarder who started hoarding after his wife died and it was impossible to get him to engage. The loft was filled to the roof with mountains of newspapers from decades ago but he wouldn't let us throw any away because he 'needed time' to go through them. He knew it needed to be done because the landlord had served notice but every excuse you could possibly think of was given to why none of the possessions even blatant rubbish could be thrown away because he 'needed time'. Unfortunately time was not something he had because the landlord wanted him gone so we just binned stuff without even telling him in the end. Seriously, this is a major issue to address which even social services will tell you they struggle with because often the person will not engage with them and resist all attempts to help. I've known it to end in court enforcement before as a last resort because they refused to cooperate and had to be forced. Within weeks the hoarding just started again. I'm afraid you need to expect to be in this for the long haul. We've all heard about hoarders being found dead under piles of rubbish.

@PonkyPonky if you're going to report them for this, yes they are going to know it's come from you, but since you genuinely want to help, you can't handwring over it. So what if they know it was you? This clearly need help, and on top of that there's the fire hazard.

Report to Adult Care Service as posters have said they could need help and not know how to ask for it.

Depends on whether they have any insight and what their mental health history is.
I would speak to them and offer to help them get help. There are hoarder support groups popping up all round the country and the fire service in some areas will provide some help. Although there is a risk the fs could refer them to SS if they got involved.

I’d definitely offer through. It just depends on if they accept they have a problem, want to do anything about it and are capable of engaging with help. If not chances are it will end in some sort of difficulty/ tragedy if they don’t. But at least you will have tried.

Why is your DH taking pictures and showing them? That is very unreasonable.

Thank you so much, this is so helpful. It would be almost impossible to get one of them on their own and I really wouldn’t like to hazard a guess at which one is likely the one who would be more open to help and support. I will do some reading and research I think and see if I can pluck up the courage to speak to them. They really had no choice but to invite my husband in today, it wasn’t something they could have fixed without help. The woman has a very serious lung condition and was in hospital for several months recently so there is definitely a safeguarding concern just with that.
I know the photo was the wrong thing to do but he didn’t think I’d be able to appreciate the true extent of the problem without it

YABU. They are entitled to live as they wish.

@GreaterStickle the problem is 'they' as in both of them, probably don't want to live like this , one will be the hoarder and the other will have been manipulated into living like this.

Why is your DH taking pictures and showing them? That is very unreasonable.

@Daisybuttercup12345 why do you think it is unreasonable for OP's husband to take a picture to show OP the severity of the hoarding in a house attached to their own ?

Agree. The hoarding is definitely something that should be reported due to the fire hazard. The neighbours may be struggling and need help, so it would be wrong to ignore that. But surely it's an invasion of privacy to be taking pictures of someone else's house? Report though, 100%.

I could have written your post about our neighbour exactly. Refuses to open the door to anyone. Boiler not serviced for 9 years. No rubbish put out for over 8 years. We're worried about the fire risk too but when I enquired to the council regarding the risks to him and us in the event of a fire we were told it's a lifestyle choice as it's owned. It only becomes a problem if it's rented. I worry what will happen, how long can it be left - another 5/10/15 years? There's the danger of carbon monoxide and apparently a lot of rubbish, food waste etc, gives off gases as it breaks down, there's mould all over the windows etc. Feel sorry for him actually but he blanks all the neighbours on the odd times he's seen out so no chance of any conversation.

By all means report them to Adult Social Care/Fire service but be aware that if they are deemed to have capacity and decline any support or interventions there is nothing more to be done.

The other posters are right, if they have capacity nothing will be done. I used to work in adult social care and would raise safeguarding concerns for some hoarders and residents that lived in mess and never put heating on. They would come out deem them to have capacity and basically nothing they can do as another poster said they choose to live like it, sad as it is you can’t force change on someone against their wishes.

Is there hypothetically a problem with rats or other vermin coming from the neighbour's house that is affecting you? If so, you would be able to report that, then the local authority has powers to deal with that.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/repairs-in-rented-housing/repairs-common-problems/repairs-infestations-of-pests-and-vermin/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20a%20problem,an%20infestation%20in%20your%20home.

(message above relates to rented property but I'd like to think it might apply to owned too)

There are a few rats and mice but I don’t think I’ve seen any more than you would see in your average suburb. I’m talking 2 rats and 1 mouse in the 3 years we’ve lived here.

What's wrong with them knowing you called adult social services? You cut their grass for them, you obviously care about them. It would be cruel to witness their struggles and not do what you can to help.

@Summerfun54321 They may see it as a massive intrusion into their lives. The hoarder may feel very threatened and angry towards the person who’s reported them. The person may feel a lot of attachment towards their belongings and persuading them to get rid of it takes time.

I was about to comment same. It’s highly unlikely they are both hoarders - approaching them with a gentle offer of support could be a real beacon of hope for the one who does not hoard.

Sad situ, OP. Agree you can’t do nothing. It’s their home, but the building is yours too.

Social worker here who has worked with hoarders. Undoubtedly the most difficult clients to deal with and we’d advise making some clearance space for their own safety but unlikely to do much more than that. Usually any clearance done is quickly replaced with more hoarding by these people anyway. It really is a serious illness.

Much better to try to gain their trust, engage them in finding out what support might be available (not necessarily through social care who they might have an irrational distrust of), than to report them to anyone yourself... like others have said, if they have capacity, nothing much can be done, it's seen as a lifestyle choice, unless maybe if they're social tenants. It's possible they're already on the radar, but have declined help from"services" so far.

@PonkyPonky I wouldn't have thought that you really need evidence of rats in order to suspect a problem and report it. Which would likely result in something getting done and - especially if you leave it a little time before you report it - won't immediately point the finger at you. TBH if the hoarding is as bad as you say I think it's almost a given that there is vermin, even if you haven't seen it.

Update: DH went round to check on them today and managed to get on to the topic of having their boiler and electrics checked as all a bit dodgy. They said they’ve never had that done so even more concerned now. I have emailed local authority for advice but not given names or address yet as want to see what the next steps would be first. If LA can offer some advice at this stage then perhaps I can go to neighbours with that as a first step towards helping them. I’m mostly concerned about safety at this point and the LA can help with getting the house a bit more safe then I’d be happy. Hopefully will get a response next week then I’ll just have to pluck up the courage to broach it with them.