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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you fight to get your DC into a school that didn't want them?

60 replies

CyberSpaceTraveller · 01/02/2023 19:13

Wondering if I should just give up. Been going on for over a year now! Totally drained and feel like I'm coming across as a bit like a dog with a bone and slightly unhinged!

DC has SEN and school is a specialist with life altering outcomes.

Alternative is a 'time wasting' provision (IMO) where outcome is probably going to be low levels if independence and lots of social care input.

WWYD?

OP posts:
Oysterbabe · 01/02/2023 19:13

I would keep fighting.

Ireallydohope · 01/02/2023 19:14

What do you mean by they don't want them ?

Minimalme · 01/02/2023 19:17

Depends on what your child is like. My dc will have low independence and need social care input and there isn't a school in the world that will change that.

Thinkbiglittleone · 01/02/2023 19:18

How do they want them. What is their reasoning for not accepting him ?

I would normally say no, if it was a mainstream school and your DC had SEN as I always think how will they treat once in there if they are trying to reject them.
But this case sounds a bit different

Smartiepants79 · 01/02/2023 19:20

What reasons are being given for why your child is not being allocated a place?
How oversubscribed is the school? How often do places become available.
In my experience places at specialist schools are allocated to those children who they believe will benefit the most.
It’s unlikely to be that they ‘don’t want them’. It’s not as straightforward (or personal) as that. These types of school are usually in demand and may have several children needing every place that comes available.

Spring23 · 01/02/2023 19:27

Keep fighting if you believe it's the best option for your dc. You know them best. It doesn't sound as though they've given you any good reasons why they think you're not right to pursue this option?

QuantifiedSpecific · 01/02/2023 19:30

Has your LA consulted with them? If so what exactly did they say?
who is rejecting the child? The LA, or the school?

More details please!

x2boys · 01/02/2023 19:30

What do.you mean don't want them?
I I'm friends with quite a few parents of children with disabilities because of my own child with disabilities,
I know a few children who.have been placed in specia!ist schools that ultimately couldn't meet every their need,s is it something like thst?

fairgame84 · 01/02/2023 19:33

No.
I had this with DS. They clearly didn't want him and I figured that if I pushed they would allow the placement to fail to get him out. I couldn't risk putting him in that situation.

Twiglets1 · 01/02/2023 19:36

I would keep fighting.
Im a TA in a school and it’s quite common that we take pupils with high needs and get told that the school originally tried to deny them a place but the LA made us accept them.
Once they start school, everyone tries their best to support them regardless and many make good progress. Not everyone - sometimes our mainstream school is genuinely not the right place for them. As long as you’re being realistic however, I would fight the decision.

SpudleyLass · 01/02/2023 19:37

Hi Op,

I hope my experience might be relatable at all.

My 4yo DD is SEN - non verbal, genetic disorder, behavioural issues - still in nappies. We have just moved from a different LA to my birth county as there are more specialist schools here.It took such a long time to fight the previous LA to name specialist education on her EHCP - I'm now in the consultation stage with the new LA with three specialist schools in this area.

To answer your question, yes I would. I personally feel I have no choice as my DD cannot cope in mainstream. It took me telling the previous LA I was at the pointing of hurting myself before they took me seriously, despite all the evidence my DD had in regards to her SEN and her ASD Level 3 Diagnosis, before they finally relented.

This is one of those battles, I find, where you have to be a stick in the mud.

JustKeepBuilding · 01/02/2023 19:38

Depends on what type of school it is. If it is wholly independent then no, I wouldn’t because you need an offer of a place and the school is unlikely to change their mind. If it’s any other type of school, including s.41 independents, then I would because they can be forced to admit.

Ladyoftheprom · 01/02/2023 19:39

I think it's depends as to why the school are saying no, is it because they are saying they can't meet need or because they are oversubscribed and no places?
If they can't meet need then no I wouldn't fight, over subscribed/full yes I would

Good luck x

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 01/02/2023 19:40

It depends on why they don't want them.

If it's the actual school that actively doesn't want them, doesn't want the work load, then no. They won't get the best out of the child in that circumstances.

If the school are happy to take them, but it's a LA or funding issue then I'd absolutely fight. And keep fighting.

Oblomov22 · 01/02/2023 19:41

Depends. Why do you want him there. Why don't they want him? What have they actually said? But my gut says no. Why go where you aren't wanted (in most areas of life this rule applies).

ChicCroissant · 01/02/2023 19:57

Are you on the waiting list for a place, or does he not meet the criteria in some way? It's hard to say from your post. Under what circumstances has he not gained a place.

Original poster
CyberSpaceTraveller · 01/02/2023 20:03

Reasons are they can't meet his needs but their reasons IMHO don't make sense. An educational psychologist assessment has said the provision is exactly what he needs.but they don't agree. It's actually a college not a school btw. Thought I'd get more view points if I put school!

For example -

He has a mild learning disability, so they say he won't have a peer group at college but they have other students with learning disabilities.

He used to self harm (ASD) superficially only on his hands in his previous unsuitable mainstream college so he's classed as high risk. Evidence that he has not self harmed at all in almost 2 years from psychiatrist. College has a specific specialism in ASD and associated MH issues with on site psychologist which is the main reason I want him there! No violent behaviour ever.

His academic levels are too low despite proof he was working at college's required level 2 years ago.

I have posted about this before and got lots of grief about how much the college I want him to go to costs but he has an EHCP and spaces are available. It's Section 41 so they can be forced to admit.

I just want viewpoints on whether I'm mad to continue trying to flog a dead horse!

Local Authority obviously don't want to fund it (has to be residential due to distance) and are trying to paint me as a mad woman!

Had a Tribunal hearing this week and their barrister told blatant lies about how I wasn't engaging with them. I have a legal aid solicitor who has been useless and no help at all,

There are no other provisions like this (believe me I've l searched) and Local Authority want him to go to a mainstream college 20 miles away and segregate him with a 1:1 doing life skills when myself and Education Psychologist believe he shouldn't need a 1:1 in the right environment (never had one in mainstream primary and the mainstream secondary he left in Yr10) and is capable of doing an academic/vocational course and becoming largely independent, working etc.

He has ASD and psychologist believes his learning disability diagnosis is overstated due to lack of support to engage in his education previously which has always been my opinion. No EHCP until age 15, ASD not correctly diagnosed until he was 17. No qualifications from mainstream secondary as they didn't enter him for any or try to get him an EHCP.

This is his last chance to get an education due to his age.

OP posts:
eatdrinkandbemerry · 01/02/2023 20:04

Absolutely not!
My sons old school made up absolute bullshit to get him out asap after I insisted he went to a specific school.
Honestly my boy is nothing like the monster they made him out to be and I had support staff from there own school tell me it was all lies.

JustKeepBuilding · 01/02/2023 20:09

Sadly many schools say they can’t meet DC’s needs without the LA being able to reach the high threshold that’s needed in order for the LA to refuse to name the setting. The majority of appeals are upheld.

x2boys · 01/02/2023 20:15

CyberSpaceTraveller · 01/02/2023 20:03

Reasons are they can't meet his needs but their reasons IMHO don't make sense. An educational psychologist assessment has said the provision is exactly what he needs.but they don't agree. It's actually a college not a school btw. Thought I'd get more view points if I put school!

For example -

He has a mild learning disability, so they say he won't have a peer group at college but they have other students with learning disabilities.

He used to self harm (ASD) superficially only on his hands in his previous unsuitable mainstream college so he's classed as high risk. Evidence that he has not self harmed at all in almost 2 years from psychiatrist. College has a specific specialism in ASD and associated MH issues with on site psychologist which is the main reason I want him there! No violent behaviour ever.

His academic levels are too low despite proof he was working at college's required level 2 years ago.

I have posted about this before and got lots of grief about how much the college I want him to go to costs but he has an EHCP and spaces are available. It's Section 41 so they can be forced to admit.

I just want viewpoints on whether I'm mad to continue trying to flog a dead horse!

Local Authority obviously don't want to fund it (has to be residential due to distance) and are trying to paint me as a mad woman!

Had a Tribunal hearing this week and their barrister told blatant lies about how I wasn't engaging with them. I have a legal aid solicitor who has been useless and no help at all,

There are no other provisions like this (believe me I've l searched) and Local Authority want him to go to a mainstream college 20 miles away and segregate him with a 1:1 doing life skills when myself and Education Psychologist believe he shouldn't need a 1:1 in the right environment (never had one in mainstream primary and the mainstream secondary he left in Yr10) and is capable of doing an academic/vocational course and becoming largely independent, working etc.

He has ASD and psychologist believes his learning disability diagnosis is overstated due to lack of support to engage in his education previously which has always been my opinion. No EHCP until age 15, ASD not correctly diagnosed until he was 17. No qualifications from mainstream secondary as they didn't enter him for any or try to get him an EHCP.

This is his last chance to get an education due to his age.

A section 41_school.I believe is a private provision outside of of the LEA ?
if they are saying they can't meet his needs then unfortunately I think you might

have to
look elsewhe 're ? I I know it must be distressing several of my friends have been through this with their children ,are there any other section 41 schools / t colleges that might be suitable ?

Hankunamatata · 01/02/2023 20:18

Do the tribunal has said no?

QuantifiedSpecific · 01/02/2023 20:21

x2boys · 01/02/2023 20:15

A section 41_school.I believe is a private provision outside of of the LEA ?
if they are saying they can't meet his needs then unfortunately I think you might

have to
look elsewhe 're ? I I know it must be distressing several of my friends have been through this with their children ,are there any other section 41 schools / t colleges that might be suitable ?

Show quote history

I thought a s41 had to be treated the same as state maintained, ie the parental preference means the LA must place.

OP which judge did you have?

Ultimately your professional advice will trump the oppo barrister.

JustKeepBuilding · 01/02/2023 20:21

x2boys · 01/02/2023 20:15

A section 41_school.I believe is a private provision outside of of the LEA ?
if they are saying they can't meet his needs then unfortunately I think you might

have to
look elsewhe 're ? I I know it must be distressing several of my friends have been through this with their children ,are there any other section 41 schools / t colleges that might be suitable ?

Show quote history

Section 41 schools aren’t wholly independent so the LA can, and must, name the school if it is parental preference regardless of the school’s objections unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

The bar do that is higher than many LAs care to admit.

ShoesIBoughtYouAsAPresent · 01/02/2023 20:23

CyberSpaceTraveller · 01/02/2023 20:03

Reasons are they can't meet his needs but their reasons IMHO don't make sense. An educational psychologist assessment has said the provision is exactly what he needs.but they don't agree. It's actually a college not a school btw. Thought I'd get more view points if I put school!

For example -

He has a mild learning disability, so they say he won't have a peer group at college but they have other students with learning disabilities.

He used to self harm (ASD) superficially only on his hands in his previous unsuitable mainstream college so he's classed as high risk. Evidence that he has not self harmed at all in almost 2 years from psychiatrist. College has a specific specialism in ASD and associated MH issues with on site psychologist which is the main reason I want him there! No violent behaviour ever.

His academic levels are too low despite proof he was working at college's required level 2 years ago.

I have posted about this before and got lots of grief about how much the college I want him to go to costs but he has an EHCP and spaces are available. It's Section 41 so they can be forced to admit.

I just want viewpoints on whether I'm mad to continue trying to flog a dead horse!

Local Authority obviously don't want to fund it (has to be residential due to distance) and are trying to paint me as a mad woman!

Had a Tribunal hearing this week and their barrister told blatant lies about how I wasn't engaging with them. I have a legal aid solicitor who has been useless and no help at all,

There are no other provisions like this (believe me I've l searched) and Local Authority want him to go to a mainstream college 20 miles away and segregate him with a 1:1 doing life skills when myself and Education Psychologist believe he shouldn't need a 1:1 in the right environment (never had one in mainstream primary and the mainstream secondary he left in Yr10) and is capable of doing an academic/vocational course and becoming largely independent, working etc.

He has ASD and psychologist believes his learning disability diagnosis is overstated due to lack of support to engage in his education previously which has always been my opinion. No EHCP until age 15, ASD not correctly diagnosed until he was 17. No qualifications from mainstream secondary as they didn't enter him for any or try to get him an EHCP.

This is his last chance to get an education due to his age.

I think I remember your original post. This is the £250k a year college, correct?

secular39 · 01/02/2023 20:24

OP, it's ridiculous. I think it comes down to that there's so many children with needs and very few specialist provisions hence why these places can afford to be picky with the pupils they admit. It's the system. They need more specialist provisions like this so that pupils don't have to go over two hours away to get the provision that they need.

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