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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want schools to drop attendance incentives?

143 replies

Sophie632 · 01/02/2023 17:53

So my son has a medical condition and has to attend hospitals appointments - sometimes not locally. Our school give out certificates for 100% attendance and he rarely gets these. There is now talk of starting a scheme where the whole class is rewarded each day everyone is in. I don’t think this is fair to children who have disabilities or medical conditions that may make them need to miss school, totally outside of their control. Also - should we really reward children purely because they don’t catch any nasty bugs? Hardly seems fair!

OP posts:
Patineur · 01/02/2023 21:51

BiggerBoat1 · 01/02/2023 17:58

Good attendance it vitally important in schools so it is worth rewarding. Can you not just explain to your son that this is one award he is unlikely to get but through no fault of his own?

Why shouldn't the school make adjustments so that children like OP's son stand an equal chance of getting awards?

Rainbowclimbinghigh · 01/02/2023 21:53

PuttingDownRoots · 01/02/2023 18:06

I was hoping this would die a death in Covid when people learnt something about disease control...
100% attendance is mainly luck. Most of childhood illnesses ate caught at school (then given to parents!)

Long term conditions can't be helped either.

This.

It just feels so lacking in any sort of common sense or critical thinking. I'm so glad that my DC's school don't do this - I'm not sure I could respect the way the school was led if it did.

Patineur · 01/02/2023 21:53

OP, you should contact the head and governors to point out that this is clear discrimination on the basis of disability, and ask for their urgent proposals for remedying that.

Patineur · 01/02/2023 21:54

Surely this sort of thing becomes counter-productive? Once, as a pupil, you know you're not going to get the 100% award, what incentive do you have to continue trying?

SweetSakura · 01/02/2023 21:56

Yanbu. It's discriminatory and nasty. It punishes children with disabilities and chronic illness. And rewards children who come into school even when contagious

SconesNotScowns · 01/02/2023 22:11

Schools don’t cater for neurodiverse kids. Simple thing to do would be to remove attendance obsessions. ADHD child needs a day off to recoup when burnt out. Low self-esteem part of adhd. So don’t remind her every 5 seconds she has low attendance or whatever on the classrooms. As for incentives, should be outlawed. Outrageous to encourage this presenteeism bullshit in post-digital world. Do workplaces do this? Nope!

Kitkatfiend31 · 01/02/2023 22:19

DianasTeacup · 01/02/2023 18:06

You need to direct your ire at government policies and ofsted, that is where the pressure on schools re attendance and being able to show that a school is trying different ways of improving and maintaining good attendance comes from.
In your DCs case I would tell the school your thoughts on the matter, especially as the proposal isn't up an running yet.

Schools have to show they are doing things like attendance awards to jump through ofsted hoops. Moan at the government not your child's school.

Abraxan · 01/02/2023 22:19

BiggerBoat1 · 01/02/2023 17:58

Good attendance it vitally important in schools so it is worth rewarding. Can you not just explain to your son that this is one award he is unlikely to get but through no fault of his own?

It's pretty much pointless in primary.

Primary children rarely have much input into whether they attend school or not, or arrive in time. That's down to their parents/guardians. The reward ought to be for the parent, if there had to be one.

Some children have disabilities and health conditions which means that high attendance is impossible due to their health and/or medical appointments. This is rarely acknowledged or allowances made.

My school (state primary) hasn't done attendance awards for over a decade. They just aren't a great way of improving attendance.

Abraxan · 01/02/2023 22:24

DonnaBanana · 01/02/2023 20:16

Why don't they just change the definition of "100% attendance" to "0% unauthorised absence"? Authorised absences shouldn't count against attendance as they could be for all sorts of perfectly legitimate things. It's truancy, term-time breaks, and lazy parenting that should be punished.

Why would you choose to punish a child, especially those aged 4-11y, for having term time holidays and poor parenting?
Children don't decide when they will take a term time holiday.
Children don't choose to have parents who make poor decisions with their parenting.

How will doing that improve the child's attendance figure?

Dominoeffecter · 01/02/2023 22:26

SconesNotScowns · 01/02/2023 22:11

Schools don’t cater for neurodiverse kids. Simple thing to do would be to remove attendance obsessions. ADHD child needs a day off to recoup when burnt out. Low self-esteem part of adhd. So don’t remind her every 5 seconds she has low attendance or whatever on the classrooms. As for incentives, should be outlawed. Outrageous to encourage this presenteeism bullshit in post-digital world. Do workplaces do this? Nope!

Schools do what they are able, place the blame where it belongs 😌

Quveas · 01/02/2023 22:33

I don't disagree that simply being present is an indicator of much, but you aren't going to win this battle. So why not box clever? Reasonable adjustments are not just about work. Ask the school what it will do to level the playing field for children with disabilities and long term health conditions, as this is discrimination on the basis that no such child could ever win. They'll have to respond.

EzzieM · 01/02/2023 22:41

cadburyegg · 01/02/2023 17:55

YANBU attendance awards are ableist

This

SammyScrounge · 02/02/2023 01:38

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2023 20:25

'Congratulations for being lucky!' is a fucking weird message to give kids.

Show quote history

Some parents want school sports days cancelled because their own child cannot participate for whatever reason; some want
academic prizes scrapped because their child has learning disabilities and can never win.
The rest of the children must never ever do better than anyone else in anything in case someone is upset by it.
That's.what I call a weird message
.

SpringtimeCherries · 02/02/2023 01:43

@SammyScrounge your post doesn’t make sense. I have no problem with competitive sports, or academic prizes. Everyone has something that they are better at than others, I think that is healthy. Disabled kids have loads of strengths same as any other child.

However disabled kids (like mine) can have loads of medical appointments and mine is also ill more, nothing to do with competition and striving to be your best.

JassyRadlett · 02/02/2023 08:03

SammyScrounge · 02/02/2023 01:38

Some parents want school sports days cancelled because their own child cannot participate for whatever reason; some want
academic prizes scrapped because their child has learning disabilities and can never win.
The rest of the children must never ever do better than anyone else in anything in case someone is upset by it.
That's.what I call a weird message
.

Show quote history

The point is that, for primary kids at least, there is near-zero zero skill, or personal behaviour, that leads to these awards. It is almost entirely luck.

Give them awards for things over which they have agency. If they have a particular talent, they still need to apply themselves to demonstrate it. I'm a big fan of behaviour-style awards - citizenship awards, awards for effort in things they actually have agency over, working to overcome particular challenges RGS, helping others. Those are all decent awards that celebrate and recognise actual achievements of different kids.

'Congratulations for not getting ill, not having medical issues and having parents who have their shit together' is indeed a fucking weird message to send kids. They don't have control over any of those things. So why reward them for it? It's illogical.

It's starting them off on a lifetime of believing that luck is somehow meritorious.

SpringtimeCherries · 02/02/2023 08:40

Also, the reason my kid does have his time off is because I as a parent do have my shit together and he does too. My child won’t ever tell me if he’s sick, he’s got significant SEN, so I have to be quite in tune to know. If I miss early signs, he ends up cascading into behavioural issues and getting quite ill.

And before I had a child with SEN I had no idea how unaccomodating medical services are, or SEN centers. Every single time I try and get appointments out of school, almost always it’s impossible.

Patineur · 02/02/2023 08:40

Dogsandchocolaterule · 01/02/2023 18:03

So when Ofsted come in and judge the school against other schools for its attendance, what do you suggest the school say?

When directors and governors and Ofsted ask what incentives do you offer for those that do attend 98% and above, what do you think they should say?

If schools say nothing governors and directos moan at them, if they do reward with certificates parents moan.

It's an impossible fucking job.

Plenty of schools manage without attendance awards, so provided that they can show that they are taking proactive steps to address, in particular, persistent absence Ofsted will be perfectly happy.

Patineur · 02/02/2023 08:41

BiggerBoat1 · 01/02/2023 17:58

Good attendance it vitally important in schools so it is worth rewarding. Can you not just explain to your son that this is one award he is unlikely to get but through no fault of his own?

How does that help when the rest of the class re claiming him for the fact that they can't win the class award?

Patineur · 02/02/2023 08:41

Agh, "is blaming" not "re claiming"

StillWantingADog · 02/02/2023 08:42

totally agree especially when in my case every single bug they’ve ever caught that had them off school, they caught at school!
including vomiting bugs where there has been a 48h exclusion policy where blatantly they were fine after 24h
really does my head in.

JassyRadlett · 02/02/2023 08:43

SpringtimeCherries · 02/02/2023 08:40

Also, the reason my kid does have his time off is because I as a parent do have my shit together and he does too. My child won’t ever tell me if he’s sick, he’s got significant SEN, so I have to be quite in tune to know. If I miss early signs, he ends up cascading into behavioural issues and getting quite ill.

And before I had a child with SEN I had no idea how unaccomodating medical services are, or SEN centers. Every single time I try and get appointments out of school, almost always it’s impossible.

Sorry, Springtime - I absolutely didn't mean to imply that parents in your situation don't have their shit together. Just all the very many reasons outside of a child's control that they may not have perfect attendance.

Patineur · 02/02/2023 08:45

RedHelenB · 01/02/2023 20:50

It's just one thing to be rewarded for. And for some kids it's the only reward they'll get. Yabu.

So what about children who won't win other rewards and can't possibly get this one either?

JassyRadlett · 02/02/2023 08:46

Patineur · 02/02/2023 08:40

Plenty of schools manage without attendance awards, so provided that they can show that they are taking proactive steps to address, in particular, persistent absence Ofsted will be perfectly happy.

Show quote history

Agree. Ours has actually ditched the awards/prize/party aspect after complaints from parents (including some with kids with 100% attendance.)

It's a fairly lazy and ineffective way to meet the government requirements. Effective in its box ticking, perhaps.

SpringtimeCherries · 02/02/2023 08:51

@JassyRadlett oh none taken! No worries.

SpringtimeCherries · 02/02/2023 08:53

@RedHelenB I think if the only award kids might get is full attendance then the school are not being very good at rewarding all kids strengths. It’s not a very nice award, as it’s showing off ‘I am being so good’ to others, when it’s a health lottery, and it encourages kids to think it’s OK to spread colds or vomiting bugs.