Private sector - unions

[Slowingdownagain]

If you are in the private sector, do you wish you had a union? If effective unions were available for private sector workers would you join (and pay into) one? Would you strike if asked to?

Why do you think that an employer should owe you any more?

i expect an employer to stay within employment law. Which mine didn't. They made me an out of court offer just before we went to tribunal.

Why on earth would you think i would put up with being shafted by a lawbreaker?

No, because I don't believe in collective bargaining. Salary should be paid on merit and performance. I personally think it is terrible to all be paid the same regardless of educational attainment and performance. Also, pay should be driven by local employment and costs of living. Paying the same rate to someone living in the North East v. someone living in the South East is a nonsense.

Also, as I am on a role, I don't believe it is right for 15% of the working population (mostly public sector), to hold 85% of the working population to ransom. Actually, why don't the private sector all just down tools, and see what occurs. No gas, electric, water, telecoms, food.

We always get the line of greedy private sector making all those profits. Where do you think your lovely pensions are invested in. No profits, no pension growth.

Royal Mail, BT and the rail companies are all private sector and all largely unionised.

Union membership is more predominant (and certainly more high profile) in larger and longer-established companies.

Those are all sectors that used to be public. I wonder if that's why there is still a culture of unions there. I would guess the answer is yes.

It's also much more likely to be in blue collar sectors than white collar.

No, because I don't believe in collective bargaining. Salary should be paid on merit and performance. I personally think it is terrible to all be paid the same regardless of educational attainment and performance.

that's not how collective bargaining works. Unions are very keen on pay differentials so (at least the ones I've been involved in are). So they will negotiate, say, a baseline salary, and then increments for promotions, length of service etc etc.

You don't honestly believe they go in and say to a firm "right, you have to pay everyone in the union 30k a year and 30 days hoiday" and the senior managers and junior employees get the same?

Yeah, they probably deserved that result for how they’d gone about it. It’s not hard to manage someone out of a job and stay within the law, so a claim against them was fair enough and well deserved, to teach them a lesson for being a bit rubbish. I’m fairly sure they’ve learned how to approach it differently next time.

Union members have more sway in private companies. I work in the private sector and our union fought and won and extra 3% on top of the company's original offer.

I used those companies as examples because they make up a large part of the current headline disputes. They are former public sector companies but they're also large-scale businesses which have existed since the heyday of the union movement in the 70s, albeit under different ownership structures.

Union organisation doesn't tend to happen in businesses with a small workforce where the management are in daily contact with the workforce. And union membership is 'discouraged' by many of the big name, 'one man at the helm' businesses which have grown up since union membership started to fall in the early 80s.

Of course I don't. What I am saying is that I don't think everyone doing the SAME job, should necessarily be on the SAME salary.

There is a big difference between being in a union, and being in a private company that recognises a union.

With the first they can support you as an individual during a dispute etc, but unless the second is true they have no 'power' as such within the organisation and won't have reps in the company, or be able to engage about policies

I work in the private sector, in an industry that’s always been private, and am a union member. Our union is currently engaged in pay talks with the company. We even striked a few years ago.
For many people it’s not as easy as “just get a new job” when you’re not in an urban area and you have other responsibilities

What I am saying is that I don't think everyone doing the SAME job, should necessarily be on the SAME salary.

what like men could be paid more than women? that sounds like fantastic business practice

Or, take a deep breath, perhaps the woman could be paid more than the man. Just imagine 😉

don't be daft though. If you are doing the same job as someone else, and you have been there the same amount of time and have the same qualifications you should be paid the same.

But then i am also a republican who thinks that the massive inequality in the UK could be solved with their own October Revolution instead of the meek and, frankly, daft acceptance of the massive-inequality status quo

Trust me, I am private sector and unions are very much a thing in my company.

I read unions as unicorns so this thread is very disappointing!

😂Yes, in that context it certainly is. Private sector unicorns would be much more fun.

when you have given 10 years of good work and are considered too expensive and your company give you redundancy notice and recruit someone to do your exact job at half the salary?

If they can find someone to do the exact same job at half the salary, I'm probably being overpaid - in which case, how nice for me to have had that for ten years. If they're taking a hit on performance to do that - well, the market and their competitors will determine whether my work is actually worth the rate I'm being paid.

Unions are very keen on pay differentials so (at least the ones I've been involved in are). So they will negotiate, say, a baseline salary, and then increments for promotions, length of service etc etc.

I don't like length of service payments, I think they encourage stagnant mediocrity. I've worked in places where you get annual increments by default and then very occasionally you might get a second increment in one year, or a promotion. But you definitely can't have that year on year if you perform significantly better than average (and of course there is variation). So why would anyone bother trying to be really valuable? IME a promotion either involves company politics or a change of job role and so that doesn't leave any scope for just rewarding people who are doing a really good job of what they're doing.

What I am saying is that I don't think everyone doing the SAME job, should necessarily be on the SAME salary.

Exactly. Not everyone doing the "same job" does the same amount of work to the same standard. Why should that not be reflected in peoples pay.

Lots of professionals have trade bodies that aren’t unions but provide some of the same benefits (eg legal assistance). So, my accountancy body (to whom I pay hefty annual fees…although my employer then covers those) would do the aid in legal situation but not pay negotiations. For a start my job isn’t standardised (and nobody else in my organisation does my role, nor would anyone elsewhere have an identical role…) so I’m not quite sure where they’d start!

You maybe aren't listening then if you've never heard of industrial action in the private sector? There's been plenty of it. There are millions of UK private sector workers in unions, and many unions covering all sorts of jobs. So yes, UABU, because you haven't tried very hard to find a union if you think private sector workers don't have unions in the UK.

And strike action is not the only form of industrial action either.

If they can find someone to do the exact same job at half the salary, I'm probably being overpaid - in which case, how nice for me to have had that for ten years.

nope. I call bullshit
They got in a recent graduate who floundered, cost them money because they couldn't do the job properly, and later recruited someone i'd trained, at nearly my salary to dig them out of a hugely expensive hole.
They paid for my expertise and knowledge of the company. When they didn't want to do that? they lost

but you keep doig yourself down, i am perfectly happy with my terms and conditions and am well able to negotiate for myself. Others not so much. And when you need help, the unions know what they're doing.

You are right, there has been some highly publicised ones for specific sectors - rail, aviation, postal. I’ve learnt from this thread quite a few factories and warehouses gave them too. I guess I was more thinking office works, people who don’t work for huge companies etc

im ever so sorry for trying to learn a bit more 🙄

They got in a recent graduate who floundered, cost them money because they couldn't do the job properly, and later recruited someone i'd trained, at nearly my salary to dig them out of a hugely expensive hole.
They paid for my expertise and knowledge of the company. When they didn't want to do that? they lost

So they weren't doing the same job you did, were they? the recent grad did a far inferior job and the company lost out as a result.
A competitive job market sorts out shit like that, because companies who pull stunts like that lose out to ones who don't.

I'm in the private sector. (Well, I was. As of today, I am economically inactive.) I've been in a union for most of my working life. There aren't enough members for it to be a recognised union, (you need 30% of staff for an employer to have to recognise it, but they can choose to do so with fewer members,) so they're not involved in pay negotiations etc, and can't call for a strike.

But they have a large library of knowledge, and were absolutely invaluable when I had to go through a disciplinary (I was innocent,) and through recent redundancy - they just removed a whole level of stress from me about having to find a lawyer to review the agreement and so on.

It's like insurance - might seem waste of money most of the time, but the moment you need them, it's worth every penny. I have been very grateful for my membership when I've needed it.