Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I'm £300 out of pocket for healthcare I can't receive

85 replies

ThirteenPicnicBaskets · 31/01/2023 15:20

I'm in a right state about this, please help.

I decided to book a HPV vaccination via Lloyds Pharmacy Online Doctor. I am not eligible to have it on the NHS as I'm slightly too old, straight and don't identify as a man, but I'd still like to take reasonable steps to protect myself from cervical cancer. It was a bit of a kick in the wallet, but I thought it was something good to do for myself to give me peace of mind.

They accepted my booking, allowed me to select my local pharmacy as venue, did a suitability questionnaire, all good. Payment was taken upfront, paid by credit card.

When I came to book the appointment, my local pharmacy was suddenly not listed as offering the service. I booked one in a pharmacy in the next town over instead. Then, the pharmacy called me to say that all Lloyds pharmacies in Sainsburys are closing in the near future, and since the vaccine is given in 2 doses, they can't do it - you have to have both in the same place.

There are no other pharmacies offering it for miles around. Public transport is unreliable around here and I can't drive, so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to receive what I've paid for. I've contacted them about getting a refund but they don't seem to be responding to messages. The T&Cs say that once you've had the suitability assessment, you have 'no legal right' to a refund - that can't be the case, surely? I haven't received a service, and they advertised it as being available in multiple locations where it clearly isn't.

Do I have any options to get my money back? I can't just write off £300. I wish I'd gone somewhere else.

OP posts:
WeeWillyWinkie9 · 01/02/2023 05:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

No it is important for the sake of justifying why she had to pay. People who identify as male get it free on the NHS. Males who have sex with other males (gay or bisexual males) also get it free. Females have to pay privately to get it.

Jellycatspyjamas · 01/02/2023 06:33

People who identify as male get it free on the NHS. Males who have sex with other males (gay or bisexual males) also get it free. Females have to pay privately to get it.

Of course we do, what an outrage.

Intrepidescape · 01/02/2023 06:37

ThirteenPicnicBaskets · 31/01/2023 15:40

I mentioned the 'identifying as' not to kick off a gender row, because women who identify as men (and have sex with men) are eligible for a vaccination on the NHS (www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/who-should-have-hpv-vaccine/). I feel it would be dishonest to do that, hence coughing up the money to go private. I don't identify as anything, I am a biological female with a cervix.

I hadn't thought of credit card chargeback - would the T&Cs negate my sect 75 rights? Would that cause any issues with credit in the future? I am quite new to the world of credit cards.

Thank you for responses - I realised I forgot to frame this properly as an AIBU question. I guess it's 'AIBU to try and get a refund'.

That’s ridiculous that men get it for free if they have sex with other men. Utterly ridiculous!!

My GP allowed me to get the vaccination paid for by the government - even though I was outside the age bracket for the second dose.

However, he refused to vaccinate my cousin under the government scheme because she had slept around. She ended up getting part of her cervix removed because she was found with the cancerous lesions years later.

My cousin is younger than me by about 5 months.

CRbear · 01/02/2023 07:22

Men who sleep with women are thought to be covered by women having been vaccinated - men who sleep with men therefore aren’t. Transwomen who sleep with men would therefore also not be covered.

i also paid for it as an adult - figured it couldn’t hurt!

Octopusmittens · 01/02/2023 07:31

TheShellBeach · 31/01/2023 16:08

So you're a biological woman. There was no need to mention that you identify as anything else as it is irrelevant.

Anyway - ask your bank to refund you.

Yes there was if ‘trans men’ (biological women) are eligible. Why therefore as the OP is a woman is she not eligible? It’s an outrageous double standard.

GimmeSleep · 01/02/2023 07:31

Section 75 Chargeback Definitely do a section 75 @ThirteenPicnicBaskets

arethereanyleftatall · 01/02/2023 07:35

So interesting that it was relevant that the op mentioned it then! I was wrong.
But, beyond bonkers that it is relevant.
Surely, in medicine, we have to drop this absurdity that it makes any difference how you identify. A trans male is a woman. That's all the NHS need to know.

Bergamotte · 01/02/2023 07:36

"If you’re eligible and miss the HPV vaccine offered in Year 8 at school, it’s available for free on the NHS up until your 25th birthday for:

girls born after 1 September 1991
boys born after 1 September 2006"

"In July 2018, it was announced that the HPV vaccine would be extended to boys aged 12 to 13 years in England.
...
A catch-up programme for older boys is not necessary as evidence suggests they're already benefiting greatly from the indirect protection (known as herd protection) that's built up from 10 years of the girls' HPV vaccination programme."
...
Gay, bisexual and other men who have sex with men (MSM) have not benefitted in the same way from the longstanding girls' programme, so may be left unprotected against HPV.

Since April 2018, MSM up to and including 45 years of age have been eligible for free HPV vaccination on the NHS when they visit specialist sexual health services and HIV clinics in England."

"Trans men (people who were assigned female at birth) are eligible if they have sex with other men and are aged 45 or under.

If trans men have previously completed a course of HPV vaccination as part of the girls' HPV vaccine programme, no further doses are needed."
From website linked by a previous poster www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/hpv-human-papillomavirus-vaccine/

So there is a reason why women over 25 have to pay privately, while some men aged 25 - 45 don't. (It'll be based on cost / benefit to the NHS for the whole population, so unfortunately it doesn't work out for some individual women)

And OP mentioned gender identity because the whole reason she's not eligible for a free vaccine is that she's female and aged over 25. But if she identified as masculine, she'd be eligible until her 45th birthday.

Hope you get the money refunded OP- really unhelpful of Lloyds Pharmacy!

PinkFrogss · 01/02/2023 07:51

I imagine trans men who have sex with men are more likely to have sex with men who have sex with men. And women who have sex with men are more likely to have sex with men who just have sex with women, and have therefore been protected by previous women they’ve slept with being vaccinated, where as the man the trans man has sex with is more likely to not have had vaccinated previous partners.

Obviously doesn’t catch all scenarios by any means but can see the logic in it from a high level cost vs benefit pov.

PinkFrogss · 01/02/2023 07:52

Anyway OP as others have said, if you weren’t just trying to start a trans debate then file a chargeback. Do you have the information in writing that your vaccination was booked in a Sainsbury’s? You can submit that as evidence if needed

Clymene · 01/02/2023 07:56

PinkFrogss · 01/02/2023 07:51

I imagine trans men who have sex with men are more likely to have sex with men who have sex with men. And women who have sex with men are more likely to have sex with men who just have sex with women, and have therefore been protected by previous women they’ve slept with being vaccinated, where as the man the trans man has sex with is more likely to not have had vaccinated previous partners.

Obviously doesn’t catch all scenarios by any means but can see the logic in it from a high level cost vs benefit pov.

Yes this is the reason why. Some groups are higher risk than others.

dementedpixie · 01/02/2023 07:58

I imagine trans men who have sex with men are more likely to have sex with men who have sex with men. And women who have sex with men are more likely to

I find this unlikely unless the man having sex with the trans man is bisexual as men who only have sex with men would not be attracted to a trans man as they are biologically women with no penis.

Brefugee · 01/02/2023 07:58

that sounds bad, OP, so first get a chargeback. But you seem to have found a hole in the coverage. AFAIK everyone with a cervix should be able to get it.

Maybe if you hadn't gone into the convoluted description of how you identify, it might have been easier to understand what the actual problem is. As far as i can discern from what you wrote, biological females above a certain age aren't allowed to have the HPV vaccine on the NHS?

dementedpixie · 01/02/2023 08:02

Yes, natal women can have it up until age 25
Trans men (also women) can have it up to age 45

Brefugee · 01/02/2023 08:13

why is there a cut off for natal women, and why is it so much earlier than for trans men?

It surely makes sense to vaccinate the huge cohort of women who were never offered it as routine as girls (I remember getting the rubella vaccination at 12 because it was introduced way after i was a baby)

Brefugee · 01/02/2023 08:15

If you don't understand a thread, just ask. No need to embarass yourself by asserting there is no point because you couldn't grasp the point.

nah - if OP had said I'm a woman who is older than the cut off of 25. And didn't want to lie and say she's a trans man (who can get it up to 45) it would have been a lot clearer.

Youwhatnowbiggles · 01/02/2023 08:30

Totally not answering your original question but - you do know that just because you’ve tested negative recently doesn’t mean you’ve not been positive in the past?! Unless your previous partners were all virgins that horse has most probably already bolted. Get your money back with a chargeback and spend it on something else!

Ruth98 · 01/02/2023 08:31

It's tough when you don't qualify for something that others get on the NHS but there's often a statistical reason why. E.g. after a certain age the vaccine may be less effective or you're likely to have already contracted the virus and it be living dorment anyway so the NHS money is better spent that on cervical screening rather than preventative treatments for those people. The reason why Trans people are still offered the vaccine on the NHS is probably because they're much less likely to attend for cervical screening and therefore it's better to spend the money on preventative measures for this cohort.

Slowingdownagain · 01/02/2023 08:32

They can't provide the service, so of course you get your money back. Have you asked rather than looking just at the Ts&Cs? Email them, if it's negative, tweet them. If all else fails raise it with your CC provider. You'll get your money back.

DNBU · 01/02/2023 08:33

How do you know you are HPV negative? They don’t test for it i thought?

DrPollyAmory · 01/02/2023 08:52

TicketBoo23 · 31/01/2023 20:15

I think she's perfectly clear and just has a wry/ironic sense of humour.

Show quote history

That's what I thought.

OP, I agree with those who suggest contacting your credit/debit card provider.

Justmeandthedog1 · 01/02/2023 09:04

Contact Lloyds via Twitter. State the provision of goods and services act. Your contract, made when you paid and they accepted, was that there was a place local to you for the vaccination. They have not kept yo that contract.
I’ve never had a CC so don’t know how you claim from them.

Livpool · 01/02/2023 09:07

dementedpixie · 01/02/2023 07:58

I imagine trans men who have sex with men are more likely to have sex with men who have sex with men. And women who have sex with men are more likely to

I find this unlikely unless the man having sex with the trans man is bisexual as men who only have sex with men would not be attracted to a trans man as they are biologically women with no penis.

This is what I don't understand - unless they are pansexual.

My friend is gay and only enjoys sex with other males - I.e. those with penises

RudsyFarmer · 01/02/2023 09:14

God I’m so confused. Are trans men men in this instance or are trans men men with cervices?