Page 2 | Laura Winham

worriediambecomingrightwing · 2023-01-27T13:11:24+00:00

This is an absolutely horrible, tragic story from the BBC website today. This poor lady with schizophrenia was totally neglected and failed by every service who had responsibility towards her and lay undiscovered for three years after she died. It’s really heartwrenching: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64400776 However, aibu to think that this framing by the family is a bit… off? It can obviously be very hard to maintain relationships with a severely mentally unwell family member, especially if you become a negative figure in their delusions, but surely you would still attempt to maintain contact and advocate for them? How can they not have heard from her for three years and not checked up on her? I believe that social services and mental health services have a responsibility to do better, I would never defend them in this case… but don’t families have a responsibility too?!? AIBU???

Original poster

worriediambecomingrightwing · 27/01/2023 19:20

Quveas · 27/01/2023 18:52

Yes it will. Quite rightly. Instead of assumptions based on one side of the story. The article does not say that there was no attempt to follow up. It says that there was no follow up. That would also be the wording if she refused to engage. There may or may not have been failures on the part of services. It is inappropriate to assume that based on a one sided story from the point of view of her relatives. As inappropriate as assuming their version is entirely accurate.

Perhaps the services did miss opportunities. Perhaps they didn't. Nobody knows. But that doesn't change the fact that resources are now so scarce that there is no capacity to chase clients. It's easy to criticise, whilst simultaneously bemoaning how many taxes one doesn't want to pay... The nation gets the services it pays for. Mental health services have been in crisis, both for adults and children, for many years. It isn't any sort of surprise. But it's easier to blame the people in services for failing rather than face the reality that if we want better services they must be paid for. Or that if we don't want to pay for them, we must cut our cloth accordingly and accept lower levels of service to the most vulnerable.

I'm not at all suggesting the latter. But I am fed up of the moral outrage of people about their expectations of services they are neither willing to pay for nor to support, from schools, social services, and the NHS through to the police and fire fighters etc. It is small wonder the public sector cannot recruit.

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Agree with every word of this.

OP posts:

HarlanPepper · 27/01/2023 19:24

There was follow up. In the Guardian it says that adult social care tried to phone Laura twice (despite the police referral stating her phone doesn't work) and then sent a letter with some signposting details - food banks and support organisations. Standard low priority response. Of course, absolutely useless under the circumstances. Ideally there should have been a visit, and then some feedback to the police to say they were unable to contact, which might have triggered a welfare check.

HarlanPepper · 27/01/2023 19:24

But I agree with @Quveas - we expect far, far too much from services given what most people are prepared to pay into them.

drpet49 · 27/01/2023 19:37

HarlanPepper · 27/01/2023 19:14

I feel the same, OP, and I do think the family bear some responsibility. Three years of no contact before her brother goes to her house and takes a look through the letterbox - knowing that she suffers from serious and intractable mental health issues, it beggars belief that they didn't raise the alarm before. I know they were estranged but she was hugely vulnerable and they would have known that.

Completely agree with this. But these days it’s easier to blame social services

Minimalme · 27/01/2023 19:45

MH services don't exist.

When the Conservatives started care in the community, they cut in patient services down to an unsustainable level.

The Police checked on her, made a referral presumably to SS, who probably wrote to her or gave her a call. If she didn't speak to them then they wouldn't have the resources to follow up.

It would have been the family's job to ring, ring and ring again, demanding help and spelling out what could happen to Laura if she isn't given help.

It shouldn't be that way but it is.

The family were deluded if they thought Laura would be getting help. They didn't need to turn up at her door, but they did need to be her advocate and not rest until she got help.

Cheshiresun · 27/01/2023 22:26

catandcoffee · 27/01/2023 19:10

The smell of a decaying body is a smell like no other.

How the neighbours didn't report the smell is unbelievable.

Very sad case but unfortunately it won't be last time this happens.

Absolutely, and there's been a few cases of similar circumstances, 3 others I've read of. All women.

Sheila Selborne, Joyce Vincent, Caroline McCrossan for example. So very sad.

Clawdy · 27/01/2023 22:36

HarlanPepper · 27/01/2023 19:14

I feel the same, OP, and I do think the family bear some responsibility. Three years of no contact before her brother goes to her house and takes a look through the letterbox - knowing that she suffers from serious and intractable mental health issues, it beggars belief that they didn't raise the alarm before. I know they were estranged but she was hugely vulnerable and they would have known that.

Exactly.

Clymene · 27/01/2023 22:52

Looking at photographs of her, she looks like she suffered from FAS so I think assuming her family were a functional is probably wrong.

XanaduKira · 27/01/2023 23:03

ComtesseDeSpair · 27/01/2023 13:19

If she wasn’t willing to open the door or answer the phone to her family, then I imagine she simply behaved the same way towards any services who tried to engage with her. Whilst tragic I’m not sure what the Tories have to do with this: it’s a very sad case of somebody with severe mental health problems not engaging and services having limited powers to force somebody to accept help.

Absolutely this.

Quveas · 28/01/2023 04:21

There was a later update to the story in which the family appeared to actually be blaming privacy laws becuse the services wouldn't speak to them about her. But she had refused permission for this to happen. If she had capacity, then this was her right.

Yes, all very tragic, but sometimes tragedies happen. They cannot all be prevented no matter how much we may wish that.

MissTrip82 · 28/01/2023 04:32

It’s right there in the article you’ve shared. One of the features of her illness was that she believed her family would harm her. This poor woman would have been extremely scared to be contacted by her family.

In glad you’ve clearly had limited experience of the heartbreak of caring for people with paranoid delusions but I can’t for the life of me fathom why without that experience you saw fit to jump straight in and assume a grieving family had not done enough. What is it you think they are, lazy or evil? Surely, surely even with minimal empathy you can realise they’re unlikely to be either.

workiskillingme · 28/01/2023 11:42

Clymene · 27/01/2023 22:52

Looking at photographs of her, she looks like she suffered from FAS so I think assuming her family were a functional is probably wrong.

No sure of your medical qualifications but they must be good to diagnose that via a photograph

Charley50 · 28/01/2023 12:18

It's a very sad story. I heard her family interviewed yesterday. They said they did write letters and occasionally try and contact her, but that she would not engage and they didn't want to distress her further. No information was given to them due to data confidentiality.
They thought she might have moved on from where she was living.

I suppose her rent was paid direct to landlord? Or they would have been round and she would have been discovered earlier that way. And sorry to be morbid but maybe as she died in November, her body did not decompose like it did in the summer.

It's very sad but many severely mentally ill people just disappear and live on the streets, totally estranged from their families. Disappearing isn't that unusual. I feel very sad for the family.

Quveas · 28/01/2023 13:56

Charley50 · 28/01/2023 12:18

It's a very sad story. I heard her family interviewed yesterday. They said they did write letters and occasionally try and contact her, but that she would not engage and they didn't want to distress her further. No information was given to them due to data confidentiality.
They thought she might have moved on from where she was living.

I suppose her rent was paid direct to landlord? Or they would have been round and she would have been discovered earlier that way. And sorry to be morbid but maybe as she died in November, her body did not decompose like it did in the summer.

It's very sad but many severely mentally ill people just disappear and live on the streets, totally estranged from their families. Disappearing isn't that unusual. I feel very sad for the family.

That question of the rent payment interested me too. Assuming she was on some benefits I wonder why that system didn't notice anything amiss. Even the lightest touch benefit awards usually consist of some contact.

Charley50 · 28/01/2023 14:03

@Quveas - I think rent must have gone straight to the HA, guess they don't bother doing property inspections? Her utilities just got cut off, instead of someone being sent round to see why she wasn't paying. People don't get as much mail as they used to, so I suppose it didn't pile up that much, and neighbours, like her family, maybe just presumed she wasn't there?
It is very sad. She may never have been at peace even if she had lived though. Chronic schizophrenia can cause so much mental suffering.

JupiterFortified · 28/01/2023 14:10

I agree OP. I think the family need to do some soul searching and reflect on whether they really did everything they could have done to help her.