To think 10/11 year olds should be given an actual book?

[DinDjarin]

DD(10)'s homework this week is to read up to page 10 in the book they are reading in class. The teacher has scanned (badly, so there's an inch or two of black around the wonky page) every single page of the book and uploaded it as a pdf on google drive. DD says they don't have a copy of the book in class.

I think they should be reading from a book at this age.

YABU - this is fine
YANBU - they should be given a copy of the book

PS is it even legal to scan and distribute a book like that?

Inclusion legislation, lack of specialist alternative provision, poor parenting meaning tasks done at school that previously were expected at home, early years provision, the money thrown at academy chains only for them to discard certain children to the LEA, new requirements needing new staff such as attendance requirements. There's certainly not more meaningful money per mainstream child.

Looking after children with SEN issues will be eating into budgets. Paying for Ed Psych, TAs, other interventions. Most of these costs are not covered by SEN funding. No 1:1s in my classes in my Primary School in the 70s, in fact no other adult at all just the teacher. Obviously no technology, unless you count the big tv on a stand being wheeled into class!

Looking after children with SEN issues will be eating into budgets.
Oh the irony. But that's for another thread.

Yes, it's a copyright infringement to reproduce the whole book, but it doesn't sound like they have much choice as schools have no money any more. Most teachers are paying out of their own pockets for extra resources.

I can believe it’s twice as good. My primary school in the 70s/80s was appalling. There were no resources or facilities. The Head had to teach a class full time because they couldn’t afford another teacher. That class didn’t have a classroom, so had to make do with lessons in the hall (even if another class was in there doing PE at the same time). The neurodiverse kids who couldn’t behave were hit. There were no teaching assistants at all. The ‘library’ was one shelf of books in each class. Once you’d read them, you were allowed to go to the next class to pick, but if you’d read everything there and had a couple of years left in the school, that was just tough.
Maths consisted of teaching yourself from the same textbook with everyone working at their own pace. No real support if you couldn’t understand it; no real challenge if you could.
It was awful for both children and staff. Funnily enough, I remember my teacher striking then too.

That's a brilliant idea.

YANBU. Schools are barely functional. Blaming thr funding here.
I would buy a copy and write my child's name in it.
In some countries, parents send in all stationary including paper, glue sticks and presumably there are book lists. They rely on donations for those who can't afford them. I'm not saying it's ideal, but I think we need to move over to that. Without reducing the school budgets. I struggle to see how schools will remain a place of education and not childcare for much longer.

I think it's true - there isn't enough SEN funding. Schools are quite often just expected to cope. I'm sure there's an element of robbing Peter to pay Paul. But despite robbing Peter, there isn't enough to pay Paul. Sucks for everyone

I'm not sure what kind of thing you're thinking of but you can't teach children who are hungry or cold or adversely affected by their environment. I agree it shouldn't be necessary for schools to have to fund this but have a look at Maslow's heirarchy of needs.

I don't think I'd bother debating with a poster talking about Labour's Magic Money Tree.

True.

I understand that is is experience that tells you that books will be damaged.
But it is so wrong that 10/11 yos can't be trusted to look after a book properly.

Even some parents can't be tested to look after and return books, let alone 10/11 year olds. Ask infant school teachers. Books go missing or get damaged at home all the time.

my reception and child is learning to read from online books and no hard copies.
fucking shit.

Now that really is shocking.

Abraxan · Yesterday 18:12
^I understand that is is experience that tells you that books will be damaged.
But it is so wrong that 10/11 yos can't be trusted to look after a book properly.^

Even some parents can't be tested to look after and return books, let alone 10/11 year olds. Ask infant school teachers. Books go missing or get damaged at home all the time

There certainly was a time when children had books and they weren’t lost all the time so it is possible.

Schools can’t afford books. My child’s class teacher recorded themselves reading the book to kids when they were in lockdown. I put a call out on FB and borrowed a copy for them to read at home. In this situation I would buy a copy myself if reasonable or order it from the library. You are right it’s a rubbish way to read :-(

A class set of books costs alot of money.
Money schools simply don't have.

DisneyChops · Today 09:55
A class set of books costs alot of money.
Money schools simply don't have*

It seems they can buy computers, but
books matter too.

Does anyone know how much school funding has gone down in real terms since the’60s ‘70s ‘80s and ‘90s when children did get books?

ThePenIsBlue · Yesterday 18:48
my reception and child is learning to read from online books and no hard copies.
fucking shit.

Do you think you could club together with one or two other parents to buy some to share between you? I know a mum who is thinking of this. Her reception child is getting one real reading book a week - a miracle from the experiences on this thread - but that is not enough. You need up to three or four to keep momentum.

It is shocking to see children’s learning being stunted in this way.

(Obviously poor children aren’t getting enough food and that stunts them, but this thread is about books.)

I was astounded when I moved from working in a state secondary to a private secondary (English teacher). Huge numbers of class sets of books - none new, but all of them intact and accounted for in spite of having been through, in some cases, ten different kids. And we sent them home.

We could charge for missing or damaged books but it pretty much never happened. They were expected to look after them, and they did.

For those bemoaning the lack of books being sent home for younger readers - current guidance is that the reading scheme/book banded books have to align strictly with the particular phonics scheme the school uses and the children only given books at the level they have currently been taught. It’s a massive constraint and the cost implications weren’t thought through at all. In our school, the only money spent on books for the last few years has gone on replacing phonics readers.

RockyOfTheRovers · Today 11:01
For those bemoaning the lack of books being sent home for younger readers - current guidance is that the reading scheme/book banded books have to align strictly with the particular phonics scheme the school uses and the children only given books at the level they have currently been taught.

What happens in practice in the case I know of is that the one reading book a week that is handed out is out of alignment with the child’s knowledge - by being behind at least half a term. Week after week the same three letter words come back. It is clear that though the phonics are taught very well as a class, the teacher does not really know what the child has or has not taken in after that to get the right book to take home. (At least they are getting one reading book and one library book though which makes it an event for a young child)

It is cheaper to get online phonic books than actual copies. Just looked up one scheme, an online annual subscription for one class is £1,200.

Another schemes collection of books, 10 of each title costs £3k.

Also bear in mind at least 80% of school budgets are taken up with staffing costs, the rest have to pay for all resources, utilities, maintenance. With the unfunded pay rises and huge hike in utility costs this leaves an even smaller pot (if any) to spend on educational resources

Just to give an idea of what my DC school do in terms of reading schemes (PM in their case) - each child is asked for 10e each year. That's 5k to the school per year, allowing for 200 out of 700 not paying (unlikely to be this much). They then add to the schemes all the time, going further up the school, adding nonfiction, getting different books outside of the scheme. My dc get a weekly reading comprehension book in English and Irish plus a daily PM reader for the younger one. They are handed back in daily in the case of the latter and at the end of the year for the comprehensions books. They are in very good condition and only replaced when needed. With the daily ones, you don't get your next one home until your first one is back.
In the school I teach in, top level disadvantaged, they also go home and they are also, by and large, brought back daily. Obviously a good record is kept in both cases and teachers have to be very careful with the books in terms of following up. It's a daily check. The latter school get extra funding, the parents don't pay.