Teachers - well paid, long holidays, gold-plated pension

[noblegiraffe]

I keep seeing this being trotted out as a reason to give teachers yet another real-terms pay cut.

Those who are going on about how great teachers have it, why have we got so many vacancies? Why is there such a shortage of teachers? It is really starting to bite in schools. My school has increased class sizes in maths and English, there are kids who have had a series of different supply teachers in core subjects since September, and A-level students who have had to teach themselves the syllabus in Y13 because they had no teacher at all. GCSE students have complained about their teacher not knowing what they are teaching because they've been roped in from another subject. We used to try to protect exam classes, but can't anymore.

Teaching vacancies are up. But the worst thing is that teacher trainees numbers have plummeted. The government has missed its recruitment targets for years, but the situation is getting much worse. Teacher recruitment for next year where schools generally compete for local trainees, which usually starts about now, will be really difficult and there will be lots more schools with unfilled spaces in September. Maths trainee numbers where I am are genuinely horrifying.

So, given the assertion that the private sector (the "real world") has it much worse and that teachers have a pretty cushy job with lots of perks, why isn't the private sector seeing a mass exodus into teaching?

Is it maybe not that cushy after all? Maybe the government actually needs to do something about it? Maybe those who think that a 5% rise is 'fair' need to have a rethink if they want their kids to actually have a teacher?

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

And this is why I respect teachers.

I don't get it personally why people have decided to scapegoat teachers. Of all people.

I legitimately could not do your job because my skill set would make me a awful teacher. I'm not in the job because I didn't fancy it. I'm not in the job because I would be bad at it.

Like most people iMO but they prefer to think they could do it well and chose not to.

People are too quick to remember Grenfell.

I was saying that just this morning or yesterday how Grenfell has taught our government nothing. Can you imagine the headlines of a school building collapsing killing kids and staff and it being leaked that that was a building on the list they refused to publish identified as being at imminent risk of collapse and they did nothing? They don't care. They don't rely on their jobs as ministers, most have seriously sizeable personal assets and capital, other financial interests in companies being benefited by their position and influence in government, they don't use state schools or if they do they're cherry picked fabulous ones whose buildings aren't falling down because they can afford property anywhere to be in a catchment.

Soon after saying, 'can you imagine the headlines' I thought hmm given the state of journalism and the media maybe I'm overestimating the outrage factor plus people seem to be conditioned and worn down into almost expecting this kind of thing and this abysmal level of governance and accountability.

And thank you to those willing to face reality and having some appreciation for the importance of education and realising without teachers there isn't any education for our children (not rocket science that one is it?). It's very reassuring and helps remind me that actually the bonkers stuff and real disdain and 'don't care' attitudes are actually, often a small number of posters who post a lot.

Can you imagine the headlines of a school building collapsing killing kids and staff and it being leaked that that was a building on the list they refused to publish identified as being at imminent risk of collapse and they did nothing?

Or it could be a fire in one of the schools in Grenfell-type cladding that was approved after Grenfell amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/30/dozens-of-new-school-buildings-in-england-have-combustible-insulation

Or one where sprinklers could have helped but the govt went against advice and didn’t install sprinklers schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-snubs-calls-for-sprinklers-in-all-new-schools/

Or, of course, it could just be the asbestos killing people amp.theguardian.com/global/2023/jan/15/uk-unions-call-in-cancer-expert-over-fears-of-asbestos-risk-to-female-teachers

Why is it teachers require validation that they are doing a job well done, it is a strange concept. I do not know any other profession (and I work with many professionals) that seek public appreciation?

the appreciation in the quote you make is about the importance of education, not teachers seeking validation.

Where is @swallowedAfly "requiring validation for a job well done?" Interesting lack of comprehension there.
She was acknowledging parents/posters who recognise that safeguarding our education system is vital and what is actually underpinning these strikes.
All the banging on and whingeing about being inconvenienced today is pretty short-sighted. It's nothing compared to what's heading our way if nothing is done.
Teachers are forgoing wages in order to protect YOUR children's future. How come so many parents aren't willing to do the same for their own kids?

@fromdownwest Why is it teachers require validation that they are doing a job well done, it is a strange concept. I do not know any other profession (and I work with many professionals) that seek public appreciation?

Because I'm a mother and I give a shit about my child's education and I fear for what will happen to the education system of this topples.

Teachers like nurses like paramedics tend to be people who care about others. They wouldn't strike unless they were at breaking point.

It's not a hard concept to grasp. Unless of course you don't want to grasp it because you have no idea what the solution is to the problems mentioned above, and focusing on the face it will impact your self very little. The "I'm alright jack" attitude which imo alone would make you a very poor teacher. Which is why I'm grateful that people like you aren't teachers.

If** please excuse typos - baby + teething = no sleep.

Actually, I don’t care if my work is appreciated or not. I want the pay to be better so I can tolerate the excessive workload more.

We need a Panorama on the reality of teaching. I'm disgusted at the general ignorance and behaviour of parents that my friends who teach and my child's teachers put up with.

It's a really intense, exhausting, high pressure job that bears little resemblance to my teachers in the 1980s

Should we also then do a Panorama about the zero hour contract workers, or the small business owners working 12 hours a day, with no pension or sick pay, or the other professionals working until midnight to keep up with their case load.

Yes Teaching is hard, but you don't have a monopoly on over worked and under paid! So to be disgusted is a little extreme.

Oh ffs. We're talking education. If you want to talk about 0 hour contracts workers start a bloody thread don't just use them as straw men and what aboutism.

We're not talking about whether teaching is hard or not we're talking about the fact that education is collapsing from critical staffing shortages and underfunding. Stop changing the bloody subject.

We have to learn to stop even responding to these people. We don't need to justify ourselves or our contracts or pay or whether we're lazy fuckers or work hard etc. We're talking about education and the fact it is fucked and it's our children and our future society paying the price.

They're just here to detract and shut down conversation. I can only think it's politically motivated.

Well there have bern lots of panoramas about lots of topics and they do sound interesting. Particularly zero hours.

However education is essential and in a country where more than 90% of children are educated by the state and the system that educates them is barely functioning, there is a topic of mass interest to all our futures.

Nobody said teachers are the only ones overworked and underpaid - as a teacher, I support others who are having working pay and conditions eroded. It’s not a race to the bottom

? The concept is the importance of a good education. Striking nurses and doctors and paramedics are highlighting the importance of good healthcare - and highligthing the fact that this is not currently what they are able to offer to the general public. Why are you trying to single out teachers as having “strange concepts”? What exactly is it that you think is strange about the concept that teachers want to highlight that a good education is not currently on universal offer in this country due to systematic underfunding, poor working conditions and an exodus of staff from schools?

I’ll tell you what a truly strange concept is - effectively arguing that nobody who is mistreated, overworked and/or underpaid should do anything about it, because they are just one of the masses who should not be entitled to protest about anything.

I'd be perfectly happy for them to do a Panorama on zero hours contracts and conditions for many workers.

It does not detract from how shit state education has become under the Tories. I am not a teacher. I just know several of them and without exception they work extremely long hours and have incredibly high levels of stress and out up with so much abuse.

Oh and one of them IS on a shit contract through an agency and has been for years. Not sure if it's zero hours but I think it's not far off.

@fromdownwest there have been panoramas about the topics you mention.

So why are teachers different? What marks them apart from other groups that also should have the right to strike ?

Baring the v few, the people I grew up with who didn't care to try in education, in my school didn't get very far in life in their later years. But then they didn't care about very much at all, so that can't be a shock.

It is the place where kids learn to develop and grow and work.

What is a shock is the way people talk about teachers now day. The contempt is visible and what's worse is they pass that on to their kids... like a never ending cycle.

Panorama has already done at least two programmes about zero hours contracts. One about Amazon using them, and one about care services using them. And I'm sure there have been others covering both that and some of the other themes you've suggested.

Should we also then do a Panorama about the zero hour contract workers, or the small business owners working 12 hours a day, with no pension or sick pay, or the other professionals working until midnight to keep up with their case load.

Yes, why not?

But it won’t address the teaching recruitment and retention issue, which is what is being discussed here.

Yes teachers need support, too many are leaving. But 12% is too much. The Government can't afford to give big pay increases to all those striking : trains, nurses, ambulance, teachers. There has to be compromise.

I suppose that check-a-trade, trust pilot and all the other review sites must not exist then?
Or the emails from delivery sites that ask you to rate their performance?

I have had
lawyers
Solicitors
Doctors
Even the local shop ask me to validate their service in a much more formal way than any teachers do.

Or does that sort of validation not meet your requirements?

I feel sorry for teachers. But I also feel sorry for nurses, ambulance workers, and other workers in various other professions up and down the country. Particularly public sector.

The UK is in a mess and until will get rid of this shit show of a government, we are all screwed ...

Teachers do tend to moan more than any other occupation. If it was that bad they'd quit and do something else, and there wouldn't just be a shortage of teachers, there'd be no teachers, or a MASSIVE shortage of teachers, with only 1 or 2 in each school.

In general I think education is stuck in the 20th century, the 19th century in some cases. Of course they use technology but the actual format of education with kids going to school and walking from classroom to classroom carrying bags and books is pretty much the same as when compulsory education started in this country.