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Original poster

Can I be sued for “stealing” something that’s in the public domain?

111 replies

RalIy · 24/01/2023 20:28

Hi,

I found some interesting data. I took a screenshot and included it in a blog. I credited the source where I found it.

The person who apparently originally came up from the data has emailed me threatening to sue me for using it without their permission or alternatively said I can pay them £1,000.

This has freaked me out slightly. Did I break the law here? I figured if it was in the public domain and I credited it, then that was all that was needed??

OP posts:
follyfoot37 · 25/01/2023 07:06

Chickenly · 25/01/2023 06:54

I’d tend to disagree. It would reflect very poorly on them if they engaged a solicitor and attempted to sue OP without even asking politely first. Courts don’t like being used for things that can resolved out of court.

Show quote history

Why would it reflect badly on the original author? They (or their publisher) own the copyright. If a breach of copyright is made, the law is there to help. I didn't mention going to court, you can be sued through solicitors.

And asking politely....? @RalIy stole original work - it is not up the the author/owner of that work to track down every thief and demand an apology

follyfoot37 · 25/01/2023 07:09

Luredbyapomegranate · 24/01/2023 23:29

@sadieshavingashindig No, it is standard proper practice, and it is you who doesn't understand the law.

We are required to take all reasonable endeavours to find an author of a work. 'Reasonable endeavour' is a legal term, it means we exhaust all reasonable paths without sacrificing our own commercial interest. That means if we can find you or your estate in an hours internet search (the vast majority of authors and their estates can be found like that, and if you want to get paid you should be) you'll get paid. If we can't find you we won't put days of research time into it, we will lay aside a sum of money for await claim in case your estate does contact us during the period of license.

The search includes the estate under the 70 year rule.

The 'author of a work' is a legal term meaning the creator of a work, it applies equally to photographers, artists, musicians and anyone else.

We have a legal team who are specialists on international and historic copyright law to advise on all of this, but in the UK it's fairly straightforward and if you have copyright you want to protect, you ought to know it.

Show quote history

Do you work for the Daily Mail?

Roselilly36 · 25/01/2023 07:16

We had a similar thing happen a few years back, the advice from our lawyer was to do nothing and wait to see if a claim was issued, then they would act (we had legal cover in place to protect our business) no claim was made, never heard another word about it. It was not the website owner that contact us it was their “Agent” so probably a very official looking scam.

Chickenly · 25/01/2023 07:17

follyfoot37 · 25/01/2023 07:06

Why would it reflect badly on the original author? They (or their publisher) own the copyright. If a breach of copyright is made, the law is there to help. I didn't mention going to court, you can be sued through solicitors.

And asking politely....? @RalIy stole original work - it is not up the the author/owner of that work to track down every thief and demand an apology

Show quote history

What does “you can be sued through solicitors” even mean?!

Yes. It would reflect badly. If you die someone for something that you could’ve just asked for then that’s very poor show. You have to demonstrate a genuine desire to resolve the dispute.

Chickenly · 25/01/2023 07:18

*sue someone, not sue someone

Chickenly · 25/01/2023 07:18

Urgh, fuck autocorrect at this point

AllOfThemWitches · 25/01/2023 07:24

Isn't 'give me £1000 or I'll sue you' a bit blackmaily...

Fadeout83 · 25/01/2023 07:25

RalIy · 24/01/2023 20:44

@Mumsnut Thanks. I think I will. It was totally unintentional if it was illegal. I thought if I credited it then it would be fine. What a learning curve.

Now I’ve looked at it in more detail it’s actually pretty easy for me to recreate using government/ONS sources. I wish I’d done that. Ugh.

Ignorance of the law is not a defence. They have every right to sue you, I suggest apologising and hoping for the best. Worst case scenario, you come to some mutually satisfactory financial compensation. I doubt they will actually go through with it though.

LlynTegid · 25/01/2023 07:28

@AllOfThemWitches yes agree. If this is repeated suggest you go to the police alleging blackmail. Might stop them using threats of the law to others.

Gunpowder · 25/01/2023 07:30

Interesting thread.

(I mean that genuinely.)

vera99 · 25/01/2023 07:39

Have I and/or Mumsnet broken the law below - serious question.

Can I be sued for “stealing” something that’s in the public domain?
emptythelitterbox · 25/01/2023 07:39

Sounds like a scammer. I'd block them.

WeAreTheHeroes · 25/01/2023 07:41

What exactly have you done OP since they contacted you? I get the impression you either haven't engaged, although you have taken the item down, or haven't actually apologised. Apologise and offer a public apology on your blog and see if that is enough for them. But be contrite, not defensive.

JauntyJinty · 25/01/2023 07:52

My company had this - my directors thought the same "public domain" as you did and we took some photos from another website to use on our own.

We got a letter along the same lines as yours, looked into it some more and realised we had to pay up so did. I don't think it was anything like £1000 - I seem to remember about £80/photo. But then I suppose I don't know what the value of the "data" taken in this case and how much work went into collating it. We could've bought the photos for a few quid each if we'd been up front

Justalittlebitduckling · 25/01/2023 07:54

You’ve taken it down, it was an honest mistake. Ignore them I don’t think they will pursue this through the small claims court.

JauntyJinty · 25/01/2023 08:00

AllOfThemWitches · 25/01/2023 07:24

Isn't 'give me £1000 or I'll sue you' a bit blackmaily...

I think it's more like soneone caught shoplifting being told "pay for what you took or we'll call the police" or "pay your invoice for the work we did or we'll take you to court" (we send out letters like that most months!) - OP has done something wrong and been caught, she's being given the option of a quick relatively cheap resolution before before they go all legal on her.

NK3360719X1133ebb3f2b · 25/01/2023 08:04

@Luredbyapomegranate afraid I’m with @sadieshavingashindig on this one. Without knowing what kind of content you’re producing (& perhaps it’s very limited distribution and then disappears), an hour’s internet research is not sufficient to demonstrate reasonable endeavours to locate a copyright owner. I’m amazed you get e&o insurance which covers that light touch approach- it certainly wouldn’t meet the delivery requirements for any significant platform / broadcaster. All the excellent archivists, music supervisors, post producers who I work with are rigorous in their efforts and provide a detailed report of their really quite creative and extensive attempts to locate a copyright owner. (I am your legal department and also represent a substantial library of copyright material which is frequently used within 3rd party productions).
interesting there are so many of us in the same field kicking about here - nice to see you all.

midgetastic · 25/01/2023 08:06

From reading a number of uk legal sites

You would only be going to court if the person stealing your work refused to take it down and you had attempted mediation

The implication being that you wouldn't threat to sue as a first step - that would be unreasonable

Obviously if OP has raked in millions from the site it may be different

Fleur405 · 25/01/2023 08:07

RalIy · 24/01/2023 20:44

@Mumsnut Thanks. I think I will. It was totally unintentional if it was illegal. I thought if I credited it then it would be fine. What a learning curve.

Now I’ve looked at it in more detail it’s actually pretty easy for me to recreate using government/ONS sources. I wish I’d done that. Ugh.

This is pretty much the point of copyright!

WigglyGlowWorm · 25/01/2023 08:16

I made a similar mistake before I realised that not all Google images are copyright free. I put an image of a guy on our website and a ranting man contacted us (he wasn’t even the man in the picture), saying he was going to sue us for £20k!! We apologised and removed it immediately and that was the end of that. We use another website now where all the images are copyright free.

ReformedWaywardTeen · 25/01/2023 08:19

I used to blog, many moons ago.

I think technically, usage without permission could be a grey area, did your credit include a click link or just a source: xxx?

I once had someone tell me they would be taking me to court over something on a post. When I looked at what it was, it was something they had lifted from my blog, recycled, and reused! Told them to jog on.

Has this site you've taken it from got a clearly visible copyright notification?

I would suggest that they would need to supply grounds for £1k in cost for using, showing where they have lost out on that amount due to your usage. Also quote fair usage and public domain and if they've not got a copyright registration notice point this out as well

I've known a few bloggers who tried it on like that over the years in the hope someone with less knowledge would agree an amount out of fear of legal action. It very rarely worked.

Patineur · 25/01/2023 08:23

LlynTegid · 25/01/2023 07:28

@AllOfThemWitches yes agree. If this is repeated suggest you go to the police alleging blackmail. Might stop them using threats of the law to others.

It absolutely isn't blackmail. It's literally a requirement of several court pre-action protocols that the potential claimant writes to the other side before starting action saying, in effect, "You need to pay me£X" or "You need to do X Y Z" by a defined date failing which the claimant will sue. The idea is to give the defendant a chance to avoid court proceedings.

Please don't waste police time with this sort of allegation.

Ladyfird · 25/01/2023 08:30

Whenever anything around this sort of thing crops up on here so many people spout a load of rubbish.

The person who apparently originally came up from the data has emailed me threatening to sue me for using it without their permission or alternatively said I can pay them £1,000.

Don't pay them, technically you were in breach and you should take time to familiarise yourself with the law so you don't fall foul of it on your blog again; but it's seriously unlikely they'd get anywhere with suing you.

DogInATent · 25/01/2023 08:31

GrumpyPanda · 24/01/2023 20:57

This sounds batshit. One screenshot, so essentially one graph? Which you credited? Sounds like fair use to me. That said in academia it's more common to recreate and attribute a table in your own font, but that still shouldn't make a difference.

Without the context, how can you possibly know it's fair use?

prh47bridge · 25/01/2023 08:33

LlynTegid · 25/01/2023 07:28

@AllOfThemWitches yes agree. If this is repeated suggest you go to the police alleging blackmail. Might stop them using threats of the law to others.

The police won't be interested. This isn't blackmail. Blackmail is an unwarranted demand with menaces. In the OP's case, the copyright owner has reasonable grounds for making the demand since OP has clearly breached their copyright, and threatening legal action is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

Before taking legal action, you are required to send a letter before action setting out what you are claiming, giving the other party a reasonable time to respond and stating that you may take legal action without further notice if they do not respond satisfactorily by the deadline. If this was classed as blackmail, no-one would ever be able to take legal action.