AIBU to fight my case against my employers!!!!

[mum2taylor]

I am due to have a 2nd disiplinary hearing with my employers tomorrow due to my attendance record. I have been with my employers for 8 months and have had ten days off sick, four of which were due to my daughter being ill. Now I know six days off sick in 8 months is not ideal but I dont think it warrants two disciplinary hearings. I had my first hearing after four days sick and was told it would be on my record for three months, but I had two days off sick in the three month period and that is why I have another hearing tomorrow. Are they in the right here???

my company is not allowed to be discretionary re sick pay since it's hard to prove fairness that way. it would have the Unison rep foaming at the mouth if some got sick pay and others didn't on self-cert. no drs note - no sick pay. it's hard on people who are geninuely sick once in a while as oppposed to people who call in sick if the cat gets a hairball but it has to be applied across the board. that said, i suspect the salaried staff get sick pay.

blueshoes sorry, just checked again and no policy I can find on domestic/"emergency" leave. Suspect the firm deals with it as they see fit. Do we work at the same place

maybe not for much longer - got my appraisal today

gryffingirl, 'tis the season for appraisals.

Right, better crack on with my work.

mum2taylor, all the best and keep us updated.

ooh, last post first sentence 'there' not 'their' .

No worries blueshoes, employment law is such a bloody minefield at the best of times (which is why my dept retains the service of employment lawyers rather than relying on our own knowledge ).

Its always worth bearing in mind that employees with less than a year's service dont have the same employment rights as others (it used to be two years) except in certain situations (which my pregnancy brain has locked away in a back cupboard at this moment in time - specific descrimination issues mostly, I think).

Good luck mum2.

Thanks guys....and good luck with the appraisals!

just to let you all know that I have had my hearing.....still awaiting the "outcome" and to hear what my punishment will be!

I put across my point that I cannot be disciplined for having had time off to care for my daughter and the response was "Oh, you cant...why is that"...I was also told that I should have back up of some sort and when I said that I did not have any brothers sisters etc whom I could rely on I was asked "well do you not have any cousins, friends etc. that dont work whom you could phone".....eh NO! I would only leave my daughter with my dp's parents (who both work full time) as a child needs proper care when they are ill and not just a glorified babysitter! I despair!

I will let you all know what my punishment is to be!

but she could claim wrongful dismissal if they don't follow their procedures correctly and give her th reasonable leave she is entitled to contractually

When are they planning to let you know the outcome?

I hope they took all your comments on board and see sense

Well, they let me know quite quickly the last time (same day) but I havent heard anything yet...they just said they would let me know.

After the Partner I work for taking me to the side and telling me he supported me fully, it would seem that he instigated the previous hearing! What a liar! Dont think I want to work here anymore!

Well that should be part of any grievance tha you raise then!

They sound far from professional in my honest opinion!

I have never had to deal with someone with so many faces before...he says one thing to me and another to HR...what is the point in that!!! I work soooo bloody hard for him too and am by far the busiest secretary in the department....where am I supposed to get my inspiration from now! Worked for the dream boss before I came here too but I just wasnt busy enough...at least now I know that the grass is not always greener!

mum2taylor - thanks for your update. i work in hr so will have a chat to my (qualified) colleagues when i go back in tomorrow - re this leave to look after your daughter.

i am also in your situation - i don't have ANYONE who could look after dd when she is ill so i have to stay off and either take the time as holiday, work the time back, or take it unpaid. luckily i work for a multi national Company with family friendly policies (how about 1 years paid maternity leave ??) so it horrifies me to hear your story.

at our place however, the 3 absences you've described would result in being put on the first stage of our disciplinary process (in fact that is 3 absences in 18 months)....

your boss, by the way, sounds like a right tw*t.

if you do decide to look for another job, just bear in mind that these days employers are cagey about giving away too much information in references - but what they generally feel safe to do is tell the Company offering you a job about periods of absence and disciplinaries (if asked). These are hard facts that they couldn't find themselves up in court for, as opposed to less concrete statements about your character etc.

mind you, if your Company isn't happy about your absence etc - they might keep quiet about all this stuff if they are happy to let you go and don't want to put off your future employer...

good luck and keep us posted x

thanks Looby34, unfortunately leaving is not an option at the moment as they are paying for me to do a paralegal course, which I will have to pay back in full if I leave for any reason whatsoever and I simply couldnt afford to repay that amount at the moment.

They did say that they dont want me to leave but that they do need to do something about the level of absence etc, etc. which is fair enough if they are following the correct procedures and im not being punished for things I legally shouldnt be (like the time off for my daughter)...its just so stressful though...ive been feeling horrid all day because of it!

at your boss. Sounds to me like he's either trying to draw attention away from his absence record (you mentioned he'd had three months off for falling over whilst drunk), or is trying to blame you for something he has done wrong. He doesn't sound like a very strong manager tbh if he can't do his own disciplining- I should ask another (sympathetic) partner if they will be your referee, if I were you. Corporate life can shite.

duchesse, thats what i find strange tbh. How can he possibly have me disciplined after what has just happened to him! He is obviously untouchable what with being a partner and all though. He was so nice and sympathetic too and said that he knew how difficult it was, what with him having three kids of his own???

I think you need to have a frank, open and honest conversation with him about his comments and expectations of you!

Shiny- isn't "frank and open" media-speak for "screaming and abusive"?

mum2taylor, knowing how HR works, they don't generally act against the business ie your boss. So when you first said your boss supported you, I did have my doubts as to why then this went to disciplinary so quickly.

No partner is untouchable - every partner fits into a certain informal heirarchy within the partnership in terms of his influence, which tends to be based on billings or clients he brings in. A partner who is off sick for 3 months would, unless he is senior and establishe, generally have to look over his shoulder. I suspect his position is insecure and he is either using you as a decoy or otherise unable to protect you from HR/other partners' scrutiny.

Even if you don't have to right to claim unfair dismissal prior to 1 year's employment, you still have the right to claim sex discrimination. It is important whether you are the only woman in the firm who is victimised in this way, or whether others in your position and absence record have had an easier time.

Keep us updated once you hear from HR.

duchesse- (It's CSS here, have namechanged in honour of dyson product test thingummmy! )

Tried the frank and honest approach with him in the past and he slammed down his notebook and stormed out of the room....I am by no means cheeky and confrontational in any way and was actually sh***g myself about doing so, but he went absolutely mental with me. This was because I was leaving at 5pm (my hours are 9-5)... I now have to check with my "team" before I leave that no further work is needing done....so he is not the most approachable person!

mumtotaylor - i only menioned the leaving bit because you said you felt like walking. sorry if i misunderstood.

hey blue shoes - whaddya mean 'knowing how HR works' ??? bit of a sweeping statement no ?

I was given my final decision yesterday evening, at five to five no less! Got a written warning.....even after pleading my case regarding the time off for my daughter! They have stated in the memo that they have given me that they do not doubt the time I have had off is completely genuine...eh, so why am I being disciplined then! Do you think I should just work it out(it will be on my record for the next six months and should I need any time off in that period I will be given a final warning or sacked) or should I appeal against it and fight them all the way! ALL HELP APPRECIATED!

mum2taylor, if I were you, I would try to get past the one year mark before fighting back, so at least you get the right to sue for unfair dismissal.

Whether you can fight it depends on the circumstances of your case, what is provided in your employment contract, what the firm does with respect to other women who are in a similar position.

I am not an employment lawyer, but if you want to fight it, you really do need to sit down with someone who is and go over the facts with a fine toothed comb. If this goes to employment tribunal, they don't go on fairness but what is the law/contract.

You can try CAB but I don't have experience with them. Maybe others can help.

I'd be inclined to work it out until you've been there long enough to claim for unfair dismissal if they try to sack you (i.e. for another 4 months). Can you afford to take proper legal advice in the meantime so you have legal backup in place if you need to take any more time off?

[Thinks: actually I would be tempted to come in when ill and throw up all over the office, then smile sweetly and point out that you aren't allowed to take any more time off sick]

Think thats probably the best way to go....just p*ssed off that they are getting away with it. I need to sign something and send it back to them so does not effectively mean Im agreeing with them? Bit worried about just throwing in the towel if it means im agreeing with being punished.