Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to fight my case against my employers!!!!

107 replies

mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 10:40

I am due to have a 2nd disiplinary hearing with my employers tomorrow due to my attendance record. I have been with my employers for 8 months and have had ten days off sick, four of which were due to my daughter being ill. Now I know six days off sick in 8 months is not ideal but I dont think it warrants two disciplinary hearings. I had my first hearing after four days sick and was told it would be on my record for three months, but I had two days off sick in the three month period and that is why I have another hearing tomorrow. Are they in the right here???

OP posts:
Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 11:26

they are saying that I should have back up in place for when my daughter falls ill but I have told them that I have no support network other than my DP and we take turns about taking time off work to prevent any of us having to take full weeks etc. DP has actually had more time off than I have to care for her but he has not been penalised but he works for a very understanding employer.....I work for a very large law firm Unfortunately as she is in nursery full time, there are bugs etc going around all the time.

OP posts:
bookwormmum · 06/02/2008 11:29

hmm i really think that you need to talk to your rep if you have one.

would it be possible to work at home on the days you can't physically get into the office, when your lo is ill?

morningpaper · 06/02/2008 11:29

at law firm

Do you belong to a union?

Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 11:33

Nope, no union representation (which I find rather strange). I was given a verbal warning at the last hearing so i have no idea what they have in store for me this time

The six days i had off were three separate period of 2 days each time with food poisoning, sick bug and flu bug. The Partner that I work for has taken me to the side to say that he thinks HR are going over the top but that there is nothing he can do as they are completely separate to him.

OP posts:
notalone · 06/02/2008 11:37

This sort of attitude from companies makes me irate. My old company was the same and I would see people in work who blatantly should have been at home in bed. I always used to put a case forward that forcing people to come in when they are not well actually makes the situation worse as they pass their germs onto others who then take time off too and also it takes longer to get over a bug if you can't take time out. A friend of mine had really bad flu that turned into pneumonia for exactly that reason - she was then off for weeks rather than days.

morningpaper · 06/02/2008 11:37

Erm there is nothing your boss can do about his HR Department? I would ask HIM to go in with me. And start taking detailed notes IMMEDIATELY of things like that that people say.

Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 11:40

morningpaper I agree with you but have to tread carefully...dont want to have him on the wrong side of me as that potentially leaves me up the creek without a paddle..hes a nightmare to work for at the best of times!

OP posts:
duchesse · 06/02/2008 11:50

Unfortunately this does not surprise me in the slightest. Employers often seem quick to crack down extra-hard on working mothers, in complete contravention any existing sex discrimination legislation.

I'm sure you will get all the advice you need on here, but in the meantime, you have my sympathy.

anniemac · 06/02/2008 11:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 11:52

Yes, Im legal secretary.

Was told by the HR lady conducting the hearing that she has not had as much time off as me for dependents and her son is now 17 years old....??? Lucky lady I think

OP posts:
anniemac · 06/02/2008 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

JodieG1 · 06/02/2008 12:01

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkAndFamilies/DG_10026555

some good info there. You aren't entitled to parental leave as you haven't worked there a year but dependant's leave you are.

"What if your employer is unsympathetic?
It's unfair to refuse you reasonable time off to deal with an unexpected event involving a dependant. It's also unfair to dismiss or penalise you (eg not giving you promotion or training or the use of facilities you'd normally be offered).

If you're dismissed, made redundant or penalised because of the right, or if you're refused time off, you can complain to an Employment Tribunal. If your complaint is successful they may make an order for you to receive compensation, be re-employed or re-instated."

Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 12:08

yes anniemac there are definately different rules for "fee earners" and "support staff" here. fee earners very rarely take any time off, but then again they can afford a house 5 times the size of mine and their bonus is probably 5 times the size of mine as well (although I wont get a bonus now that Ive been off sick ).

OP posts:
Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 12:10

Thanks for that JodieG1.....really helpful advice there...makes me feel more confident about "fighting my case" if I know I have the law behind me!

OP posts:
Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 12:10

Thanks for that JodieG1.....really helpful advice there...makes me feel more confident about "fighting my case" if I know I have the law behind me!

OP posts:
ChristmasShinySnowflakes · 06/02/2008 12:12

Go in with copious notes, referenced to employment law/ the links that people have thoughtfully provided.

Should they even contemplate dismissal (hope to goodness they don't btw!) then you can claim unfair dismissal due to descrimination. I'm sure they won't want their reputation tarnished with such a claim....

Looby34 · 06/02/2008 12:15

mumtotaylor - are you sure they're not discipling you for the 6 days alone ? you're certainly entitled to time off to look after dependants, but at our Company (major manufacturer), 6 separate absences in 8 months would be classed as excessive and would definitely result in disciplinary action - regardless of whether it is backed up by Dr's notes etc. Their argument is that they are unable to meet targets and deliver products that have been ordered by customers if absence is high - so they have s strict policy. People with an ongoing medical problem, however, are not treated in quite the same way. I hope you get it resolved soon. Try and familiarise yourself with your employers policy so next time you think about calling in sick you know what the result of your actions (if any) will be. Good luck with the hearing .

anniemac · 06/02/2008 12:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 12:22

Looby34 - definately including the time off for my daughter in the hearing as this was discussed more at my first hearing than my own sickness. I was told several times that it is my responsibility to have back up in place for when my daughter falls ill but I told them that I dont have any backup....the nursery my daughter is in will call me if she is sick more than once in one day to prevent the spread of illness so I have to go and collect her. My mum used to help me out in this regard but she passed away a year and a half ago.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 06/02/2008 12:23

mum2taylor, I work in a city law firm. What is happening to you does not surprise me.

You need to go through your firm's employment policy with a fine toothed comb. In my firm, it is all on the intranet. Ensure that you have complied with all the procedures (eg sick note, calling in first for domestic leave etc). Ensure you did not take more than your allotment. If so, sick leave and unpaid domestic leave is your employment right and a benefit of your working there. Only if they think you were LYING (eg taking unilateral duvet days when you/daughter were actually well) could they actually institute disciplinary proceedings.

Is it really a 'disciplinary hearing' of which you have had 2? I am shocked and feel that is really OTT. If they felt you were cheeky, a simple chat and warning will do, and then again, and then only after that, disciplinary proceedings. But to go straight to disciplinary proceedings sounds really heavy-handed, almost bullying.

What does your company policy say about disciplinary proceedings. Is HR involved? At my firm, it is a real bugger to sack anyone and requires A LOT OF HR hoops. But then, the firm makes it a point not to lose in employment tribunals.

blueshoes · 06/02/2008 12:26

mum2taylor, can you clarify whether you a permanent employee or on a temporary contract?

duchesse · 06/02/2008 12:26

"But to go straight to disciplinary proceedings sounds really heavy-handed, almost bullying."

Blueshoes- exactly my thoughts. But I have worked for a company where they spent months collecting grievances so that they could fire people rather than make them redundant, and making people really stressed in the process. I kind of thought from all the companies I've worked at that that kind of practice was pretty standard.

Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 12:29

blueshoes....I had an informal chat with the woman from HR whom conducted my first hearing before the hearing took place and she said that under no circumstances did she think I was anything other than genuine. I called in to the office each and every morning I was off (which has never been more than 2 days at a time anyway)so have covered myself from all of those angles. My hearings are conducted by two ladies from HR (one did all the talking whilst the other lady just sat there - think she was only there to look at you and make you feel uncomfortable

OP posts:
Original poster
mum2taylor · 06/02/2008 12:30

PS. Im a permanent full time employee, not on a contract or anything.

OP posts:
ChristmasShinySnowflakes · 06/02/2008 12:33

I think you should also find bits of legislation around family/parent friendly employment rights etc...