Sick of father - aibu?

[Jj202]

Just had a big row with my 70yo father - I'm 35f, DH is 38.

Father is 'off' with me for a few days (we email daily). Due to visit him and mother tonight, day before DH starts new job (they both live nearby, we see them 2 days a week) and get 'secret' email from mother few hours before saying father is angry at me and I've hurt his feelings and just to apologise and not say anything more so he backs down and feels better.
This annoys me. I ring father to ask what is up in hopes to avoid in person row - get told I've snapped at him 3 times over last few weeks and hurt his feelings. I have been moody at times admittedly and I apologise though admittedly grudgingly.
After about 20 times apologising father tells me he won't accept my apology. I get pissed. He tells me he wants to cut contact with me and only see me at his house from now on for one day of week, not 2 because he dreads seeing me, and gets no enjoyment from it, though says I'm better round his so should still visit that eve, especially as he wants his hair cut.
I say go to a hairdresser instead and if he wants to cut contact that's really hurtful but ok - he says he's glad he raised it cos not seeing me anymore will be like a holiday for him.
I hang up then call back a bit later to agree not to meet any time soon.
Hour later get some kinda passive aggressive email forwarding an old email with no message when he was nice to me?

Parents are pretty good overall and I admit I can be snappy though it's due to stress and taking it out on this closest so, long rant over, AIBU waiting for an apology for saying he doesn't want to see me, it'll be like a holiday for him and so on, before contacting them again?

When somebody says they are snappy and apologised only begrudgingly, I tend to think they are downplaying it. And that is what I thought when I read your first post, when I read the later one with your listing of incidents including chicken pox, it seems pretty conclusive to me that you are unpleasant to your father and I am not surprised he is finding it too much. I am gobsmacked that you think it is you that deserves an apology.

AIBU waiting for an apology for saying he doesn't want to see me, it'll be like a holiday for him and so on, before contacting them again?

It's understandable for you to want an apology but really - what use would it be?

He won't mean it, just like he doesn't mean he's going NC with you.
People who are sufficiently dismayed by your behaviour to take the huge & upsetting decision to go NC don't ask you to come round anyway to cut their hair.

You dad is a manipulative old git, & your mother enables him at your expense because it's easier for her - she's the one who has to live with his tantrums after all.

The best response you can give him is none.
Just drop the rope.
Then when he pulls on it - you won't be there, & he'll have to have an argument with himself instead.
I strongly advise you to stop contacting him, stop discussing him with your mum, & just crack on with your own life.
He won't let you get away that easily: he'll either contact you again to needle you for more drama, or he'll dispatch your mum as his Flying Monkey. And your mother will comply, just like she did this week -
and get 'secret' email from mother few hours before saying father is angry at me and I've hurt his feelings and just to apologise and not say anything more so he backs down and feels better.

Your dad got your mum to get you to ring him for the apology he demanded.
He put you through a command performance of 20 apologies.
He then made a contrary great meal out of refusing to accept the apology he'd demanded.
Can you see how he sets you up to fail?
How any apology, from either of you, cannot be genuine while he treats you as his personal Supply? queenbeeing.com/narcissistic-supply/

All that will happen if you insist on an apology is more drama.
All that will happen if you extract some grudigng & insincere words from him is that he will manufacture a new 'reason' to make himself offended so that he can place you back in the wrong & demand you apologise again. Just so he can reject you again.

It's a very tired old merry-go-round isn't it?
You have the freedom to stop all this bullshit - just by stepping lightly off the merry-go-round.
By dropping the rope.
By letting him "go NC" (ha!) with you, & not responding.
By using Grey Rock EVERY TIME you interact with him.
www.blunt-therapy.com/how-to-gray-rock-method-a-narcissist/

It will take some practice & willpower to change the way you interact with your emotional tyrant. But there is information & support out there, & I suspect you will find this site a tremendous source of help - outofthefog.website/toolbox-intro

You might also want to search MN for the "Stately Homes" threads, which are all about mutual support for adult children of .... let's just say "unreasonable" parents.

btw - the links I posted above are not about judging whether your dad is a narc or not: none of us can 'diagnose' & you don't need diagnosis. All you need is a set of techniques that help you manage the old git - you don't need to be wondering "WHY is he like this", you need to be concluding "this is HOW he behaves & this is HOW I can best respond to minimise the negative effect he has on me."

I'm sorry how hurtful & maddening your dad is. The more Grey Rock you practice, the better able you will be to choose not feel the pain he enjoys inflicting on you. Or at least feel it less deeply, & certainly be better equipped to deflect it & not engage with his nonsense. It will take a little time, but it is absolutely possible - reading the Stately Homes threads will show you how PP have been able to do just that.

She's apologied 20 times, it's still not good enough for him, & any of us would be grumpy if we had to pay court to an emotional terrorist twice a week.

NEWSFLASH - human beings are grumpy & snappy sometimes. Even the good ones. It's no reason to threaten to go NC with them. & use that hollow & insincere threat as a weapon to beat them with.

Honestly, it sounds like although your dad is a difficult person, you are also feeding into a dysfunctional relationship with your behaviour and responses.

As an example "I say go to a hairdresser instead and if he wants to cut contact that's really hurtful but ok - he says he's glad he raised it cos not seeing me anymore will be like a holiday for him.
I hang up then call back a bit later to agree not to meet any time soon." Why are you phoning back again "to agree not to meet any time soon"? I could understand phoning back to try to make things up, or even to tell him where to go, but honestly, this interaction sounds like 2 kids arguing and storming off, only to keep coming back and saying "oh, by the way, you are a poopoohead!" or similar insult.

you can't change your dad, but you can change your behaviour. The first part of the conversation earlier, where you said that it would be hurtful if he cuts contact, but if that's what he wants then OK was the best type of response. Sounds like you are dancing around to his drama each time.

You say that you do know that you can be grumpy - take a good hard objective look - is grumpy just "not agreeing with him" or is grumpy being more than that (you talk in your post later about "I admit I can be snappy though it's due to stress and taking it out on this closest") Your closest people are there to provide support when you are stressed, not be your emotional punching bag. You wouldn't take out your grumpiness on a co-worker, or even a complete stranger (hopefully!), so why do the ones you love get treated worse than that?

I think you sound a lot like your dad in terms
of your interactions , just tell him you love him and give him some space - I really wish my dad was here to be an arse to me

Your dad sounds awful! Noones allowed to win a board game? He wants everyone to bow and curtsey to him?

He sounds unhinged.

I feel very sorry for your husband marrying into such a family and for your mother too.

I can only imagine how miserable her life must be living a small life with a perpetual victim.

Stop feeding into and contributing to the misery of your mothers life.

Stop taking your stress out on your father, grow up.

Step away from all contact and take a complete break.

Stop phone and email contact with your father.

Email your mum and wish her well and tell her a break is needed by everyone.

See a bit of your mother separately and reduce contact with your father.

He is unhinged in his little life and is looking to break the monotony by drama.

He's only 60 for goodness sake, you could have 30 more years of this.

Step away and grow up yourself a bit.
Family are not a punching bag for when you are stressed.

Learn to deal with it.

You are me, 15 years ago. My mother was the same. Your posts brought back the memories of all my apologising over and over, and my hopeless feeling of not understanding why I was expected to guess her thought processes. The walking on eggshells, not knowing when I was going to inadvertently do something that would cause days of sulking, silence, upset, guilt, confusion and the dysfunctional communication like you’re experiencing.

I remember once i asked what I’d said that had hurt and upset her so much. She said it wasn’t anything I’d said, it was “the way I’d looked”, all hard and cold. She often said I was “hard”. This was all over something so minor that most people out in the world wouldn’t think twice. Despite my endless repeated apologies (I didn’t even know what I was saying sorry for tbh), it still took days for her to come round as “she was so hurt and upset”.

So many similarities - I was an only child too and my mother had a very small unassertive life. I think I was the only person she was brave enough to be assertive with, but she’s never been taught how, so it all came out as emotional terrorism.

I’m so sorry I don’t have a solution of how to change your behaviour, to prompt your father to change his and grow as a person. My mother died. At first I was devastated, due to the loss of the codependency I’d been in all my life. When the fog cleared, I was so shocked to feel so free.

I recommend the relationships board and the stately homes threads. So many, mostly women who were only children, experience this dynamic. It’s not you, and you’re not alone.

Your poor husband - I'm really surprised he's tolerated this for so long. If my son had in-laws who behaved like this I'd be doing my nut. Poor bugger isn't even allowed to win a game without getting aggro!

I think when you've grown up with a parent trine this, it's hard to break away but your really have to, while you still have an intact marriage. Stop going on holidays with them and calling every day. Keep them at arms length - be civil but massively cut down on all the visits. And stop subjecting your husband to them!

Hi,
I just wanted to say thank you so much for all your comments and advice. I'm so confused because I can see all perspectives - my father can be the loveliest or er not so much.
So I responded and said how I honestly felt and how I had apologised and apologise again. I got two responses - firstly a very long email basically having a go at me including that he will always apologise for what he's done wrong unlike me and I'm always blameless and that my feelings are phoney, and lots of other stuff about me being wrong.
Secondly I got another response saying let's make things right again like they used to be when he 'made the effort to every week cycle to visit me' (around a decade ago), and that the only possible solution is for him to apologise for every time he's ever criticised me in 35 years and to say he'll never criticise me again as obviously it's what has caused everything - so a sarcastic response (written in a 'nice' way) basically.
He suggested going over tomorrow - we had planned for my parents to come to our house but they suggested we go there instead.

So I just wanted to update and the AIBU I guess is I just responded politely to say it's been a long week and to give tomorrow a miss though thanks for the offer.

Basically feel there is no arguing with him and no space for expressing my feelings. So I have no idea either what to do next but can't really be bothered with sarcasm. I do obviously understand I've hurt him by saying how I feel but what am I to do just stay quiet forever about when he's hurt me and suck everything up? Maybe I just should have apologised like I always have done?

Anyway, thank you everyone for your replies, I do really appreciate them.

Look up ‘covert narcissism’. Although the comment about being the boss is downright and out overt narcissism. Covert narcs have high levels of anxiety and the route of it is their own insecurities and low confidence. Your dad seems to have a lot of the traits. Just telling him what he wants to hear, does not work in the long run. The cycle repeats over and over. I’d personally keep low contact and not engage in the email exchanges. It’s manipulative at best.

i was just about to say something alomg these lines. i have one of those as a father and i know longer care to play his pathetic games. im very low contact and if my mother passes before him, i will gladly go zero contact. please do as much research as you can OP, it will save you xx

*no