Annual leave first come first served - NHS

[MakeMineALarge1]

How can first come first served be fair when the calender is open and you are off for 2 weeks and end up missing out on one of the half terms and had planned to go away

I have never seen first come first served, but I worked in a dept of over 250 so the opening to get leave in was normally a month

You sound rather entitled, OP.

No doubt if you had gotten everything you wanted you would have felt the system was “fair”. As you haven’t, it’s “unfair” 🙄

Even people with no children like to travel at Christmas, Easter, summer etc. I see no reason they should always be deprived by colleagues demanding they have priority because " its the school holidays".

We have an online calendar so can see dates that are "currently" available but the manager who approves/declines annual leave is someone who always seems to be on carers or sick leave so by the time it is updated you are then declined as someone else had already applied.
Winter pressures - no leave to be booked in January.
Christmas (four week period) - had to apply in October then getting declined.
Weekend rotas - dates for 2023 not given out until mid December.
Then told last week if not taken by end of march - can't carry over so will lose them.
We have lost seven experienced people from a sub team of fifteen over the last few months.
Our team is not really affected by school dates but there are still major problems.

I used to hate this when working in the NHS. Every year the same grabby people would be there as soon as the new year diary came out and be booking off the best weeks closest to the next Christmas ( no one could book actual Xmas week off ), and half terms etc. So infuriating and selfish. Same people every time.

nd they wonder why the NHS can't recruit ! How on earth is anyone meant to manage any kind of life outside of work?

OP, if you knew when the calendar was opening and you weren’t at work, you should have emailed whoever approves your leave requests to book for the year ahead. Should your colleagues all have waited until you returned from your holiday to book their leave?

Had this in my first job back in the dim and distant 70s, which mean that the woman who had worked in the Civil Service all her life up to and after retirement had first dibs and he new trainees got what no-one else took or wanted. Come the day the new SEO turned it on its head and new trainees, including me, were first on the list. Blimey, the screams of 'it's not fair!!' could have been heard for miles.

Everywhere I’ve ever worked had had first come first served

So you got all the holiday you were hoping for, except for one week. Sounds like you haven’t done too badly.

I know you said you were hoping to go away during that week, but you will just have to change your plans.

i don’t see a problem with the holiday booking system being opened on a certain date. However, certain peak times should be managed. Ie. In my department, we rotated in turn who had the Christmas period off.

Our department can recruit but not retain.

This isn't logical. You and this other person both got the same dates, except for October. That suggests that at least one other person also wanted October and got it - since its obvious that more than one person can be of at the same time, otherwise your and this other person couldn't have both got all the other school holiday dates. So it's this person's "fault" they got in first, plus whoever else got in first, plus the system isn't fair because you can't have what you want? You do know that you don't own dates just because you have children? In any system you are going to get turned down for something - unless you are suggesting that you want parents to get first dibs on all the dates they want?

The world doesn't revolve around your wants. And you are lucky you got almost all the dates you wanted. In my team, and many others, we have to restrict the numbers allowed leave in school holidays, and so it's my "pick" as the manager to sort out who gets the dates they want "fairly", and most parents only get about half of the school holidays because that's all we can give them. There's a job to do, and it needs doing all year, not just when convenient.

So apart from one instance you got all the holidays you wanted?

Its entirely normal to not always get the leave you want.

One of you would have got it and one of you wouldn’t have. Sounds like you are saying it would only be fair if you got it and not her.

It is what it is. Just try to be quicker next time! I don't think your colleague has had preferential treatment, they just got in there first as they know how the system works. I definitely wouldn't get bitter about it.
If it makes you feel any better, we have had a holiday cap from 3 people off to 2 in a team* 10. 8 of us have school age children.... 3 already have booked and approved leave before the announcement. Now work that one out!

• due to too many sickness days last year. But that's another issue!

I have got everything else I need apart from October - I can probably take either side but that means taking him out of school.

Why? YABU - no-one needs to go away at half-term. And children should not be taken out of school for holidays.

I solved the problem. I resigned and now earn more as an agency nurse meaning I can afford to take all the school holidays off!

Me and the other person both have school children - she has got all of her first choices, I have got everything else I need apart from October - I can probably take either side but that means taking him out of school.

You got everything you wanted apart from one week in October and you're still complaining?

You don't need to be off (or go away) during half-term just because you have a school-aged child. Why can't you use childcare and go away another time?

Not saying when a calendar/application time will be is unreasonable, whatever system you have. Just lazy management, I doubt in the OPs case a way to favour someone (or not).

As to some of the options, thoughts:

Fair to have a maximum of two weeks in the summer period.
Fair to have only a given number of other 'peak times'.
Reasonable to have a closing date, all requests in when a decision is made.
Those without children may want time off in school holidays to visit or go on holiday with someone with children (as an aunt, or grandparent, for example), or to help an adult child with looking after grandchildren.
Those without school age children may want to go to an event. Edinburgh Fringe is in August, for example (if you can afford to go!).

I’m nhs and mine now has to go to the whole team so it takes weeks to sign off. The holiday I wanted is now £1300 more than if I’d booked 3 weeks ago. There must be some kind of approach that is fair and quick. My manager hates making decisions so everything is by committee so no one is upset (but in reality everyone is fed up with a lack of decisiveness).

My work does this and it’s actually very fair. The first people don’t get to pick all their leave first.. just 2 weeks then it goes round in rotation and then back to to the first person again for their next week and so on. This means everyone knows when it’s their turn and they get 48 hours to think about what they want. It also means if the most senior or longest serving people pick Christmas then you’ll at least have summer or Easter etc

We do this too.
And if Christmas requests are oversubscribed then manager will look at who had it last year

no one needs to go away at any time, so by that logic no one should get leave at all

I was actually away, in a foreign country with dodgy internet.
So no I don't expect the world to revolve around me.

I am not suggesting I should get first dibs on everything because I have children, I just think first come first served isn't fair on anyone when#
1 - it isn't announced when the calenderer is open
2 - people can't put their requests in because
they are physically away

It doesn't help that in many parts of the NHS there are so few staff that only one person can be on leave at any one time.