To ask what book will fix this?…

[Pinkkite]

I have come to lots of realisations from reading threads on here over a long period of time. Thanks MNetters. DH and I are in a very long process of trying to even up division of domestic labour (housekeeping, emotional labour, mental load) as a result - but dear me it’s been a battle. Any good books to help?

Here’s why if you want to know but it’s long, sorry.

I carried the mental load, did most of the household chores and still do most of the emotional labour. I fell into it because I was on mat leave, then worked part time whisker he worked full time.

He now works two days a week max (for agreed reasons to do with a joint decision to make some changes) but would like more time to pursue more work. I’m not keen on this idea because historically he has always been self employed and has a history of spending vast amounts of time and energy (and some money) on projects that will make ‘money in the future’. They barely have in 18 years of marriage. He’s not a good business man. He would say the same but he enjoys the process of having the idea and doing the prep but then doesn’t have the sticking power to see it through.

We made a joint decision to change our life (involved a couple of big life changes) but to do it I had to spend more hours working. I still am part time, but my job exhausts me now (peri menopausal and the nature of the job) but it’s our only stable and secure income that has a pension and it covers the bills and small luxuries, with a little left over. His work is less secure but brings in enough for bigger luxuries like holidays. Sometimes he only has a days planned work.

He, in theory, agrees that he should do the majority of household tasks. We are almost at a point that this is happening but he doesn’t enjoy it, doesn’t value it, to so finds it drudgery and isn’t invested in getting better at it. But does his best. He doesn’t get the idea of emotional Labour. He has taken on a lot of the DC mental load but struggles (misses things).

If I ever talk to him about the emotional Labour side of things he doesn’t get it. If I mention his privilege (tall, white, middle class male) or any of that stuff he doesn’t get it. Tells me it’s internet rubbish. He often feels hard done to. So…

He’s a reader and a podcast listener- any good, reliable, credible sources of information I can send his way please? Or an inspiring book on housekeeping that appeals to men?

Anything really to give me some back up as I try and get equality without ending up living in a shit tip or DC looking neglected (they are not, but he doesn’t get them to wash or clean their nails etc), that doesn’t involve tons of wasted food, washing too crumpled to use, things never in the right place. I’m NOT going to ‘just do it all myself, even though that, at this stage, would be quicker and easier.

We are in a process of change and he is a fairly willing partner in that change, but it’s hard work getting heard sometimes. He wants us to be equal. He wants us to have a nice clean house, DC well cared for, fun family times etc in theory… Any suggestions gratefully received.

*whilst he worked full time

I’ve posted before under other names when I was at the end of my tether and it was so helpful. Im hoping the same LTB feminist wise women will come to my side now to keep me strong? I’m determined to crack this.

I don't have any recommendations for books or anything. Following that with interest.

I see a few options. #1 is be very specific with what needs to be done, maybe a checklist or something. #2 assign him jobs that he is competent at

I realise that this still leaves you with the mental load, but hopefully with time he will build the skills and then just get on with it.

Or #3 - allow him the extra day to work with the caveat he must bring in enough money to cover the costs of outsourcing some of these jobs, maybe a cleaner, a laundry service. You could even get hello fresh to take on the mental load of planning meals a few nights per week.

I find housework drudgery too and would happily work more to pay someone else to do the jobs I hate.

bluebird3

Thanks for posting.

Sadly, he isn’t keen on learning from me or me giving him any direction. He’s very sensitive to any hint of criticism so I have to tread very carefully (whole other thread and another thing we are working on!).

Hello Fresh is a good idea. I’ve used them before. He refuses to meal plan - likes to be spontaneous so often there is food waste. It also means when I come to cook at the end of the week it’s a random selection of wilted and yukky looking stuff.

I prefer to plan so I could do this for my cooking days. He will hate the financial and packaging waste so much he might start planning more.

So you're doing all the mental load and emotional labour of getting him to understand the mental load and emotional labour...?! Lols

How about invisible women by Caroline criado Perez? I think you can get it as an audio book and there's a podcast too. Not specifically about domestic stuff tho. And I only made it halfway thru as it was a bit samey after a while!

Someone was saying a scandi government campaign told families that domestic work has three steps: 1. Notice it needs to be done 2. Plan how to do it 3. Do it. Men are often prepared to do 3 when a woman has done 1 and 2 for them.

I worked with a development charity for a while, which helped families where often the men did sod all and the women did everything - they got them to write down a typical week, everything they do, who has more leisure. Can help to focus the mind.

Re money I'd look at your budget and see what income would give you financial security eg pay rent/mortgage, cover bills, a bit for savings - then look at what working pattern would deliver that. Two days a week in a self employed job that doesn't pay after two decades seems self indulgent tbh. He could do that and work a day or two in a related field that could inform his business.

You could also do a life swap where you do what he does and he does what you do for a week or two. Make a list.

Squamata · Today 08:59
So you're doing all the mental load and emotional labour of getting him to understand the mental load and emotional labour...?! Lols

ha ha - yes. So true.

I think one of the biggest problems is that he said he was wanting this life change so was willing to take on the bulk of this stuff but the reality of it is dull dull dull - as we all know!

Yes. It is indulgent. He’s been able to persue his interests. He re trained when DC were very little. That is appointment based so guaranteeing money, but demand fluctuates. His other interests are new ventures in different fields. All relying on him to push them through. He’s had several such projects - 6 I can think of off the top of my head. One has broken even, it brings in a minuscule amount of money. The others cost more in time and money than than they made, if they even made anything. So, I don’t trust his two new ideas would be fruitful and I’m not sure I want previous time wasted on them. They can be a hobby. He’s not had a job with an employer for twenty plus years. Not sure he’d get a decent paying job TBH.

If he was holding the fort competently at home I could work more. I have double, may be triple the earning power that he does but I’m exhausted.

*precious time

I'm not sure a book or podcast is going to help.

He isn't doing the things because he doesn't want to and knows eventually you'll do it.

If he was serious, he'd have either figured out how to do it or he would have accepted a little instruction from you.

What will you do if he never does it?

I think the fundamental issue is whether he cares tbh.

Yes, domestic labour is absolute thankless drudgery. Someone has to do it, men are conditioned to expect that it just gets done.

He knows you're working hard and doing everything at home, it suits him though doesn't it? His only incentive to change is that it will make life better for you. It doesn't make life better for him. And you're willing to be fobbed off by the sounds of it.

If he got a job in a pub or something it would pay for a cleaner then you could stop battling about it?

Is he doing what he should be and not doing it to your standard or not doing it at all?

E.g. preparing meals. He is cooking the meals every night (or whatever was agreed) but isnt planning in advance what to have whereas you expect him to meal plan for the week

Or only ironing shirts and trousers and you would prefer him to iron pants and socks too.

The above are just examples by the way and not indicative of what he does/doesnt do.

I struggled with this in my marriage as I like things done a certain way and in certain order etc whereas my Husband has a different approach and method to me and it took me ages to work out that as long as it gets done, the process is irrelevant.

If he isn't doing anything round the house then he is a lazy fucker, especially as he's dropped down to two days week work.

Unfortunately if he can't see what needs doing and doesnt do it, then its going to be hard to change him so personally I'd be have thoughts about what could change in the household to make me happy

I'm not judging btw, my own domestic situation is not a million miles away! We have a cleaner which makes things a bit better, but DH never ever notices something needs to be cleaned and then does it.

But DH works longer hours than me and earns about three times what I do. I'd resent DH in your situation.

Thanks for posting all. Appreciate it.

Squamata

Yes. Men are conditioned to think it just gets done. It’s that, that he can’t see. I think he’d be interested to learn as he (hilariously in my eyes) sees himself as a feminist. An ally to women.

When he lived on his own he just didn’t do it. When he wanted to move in together I agreed, if he agreed to working together to have a clean home - which he did and said he preferred it - however, somehow I ended up doing the bulk of it all, which worsened when I went on mat leave and went part time. .

If it was as simple as just the cleaning that would be easy. It’s ALL the other stuff. The emotional labour and mental load (I have to stay calm in the face of DC, he argues with them like a child, he never sorts birthday cards and presents out, he doesn’t get DC to wash, cut nails, get a haircut etc). I’ve started to back off but things are getting left (DC hair too long, nails long and dirty)

He does care, in that he wants a happy family life, we have democratically agreed on what needs doing and how often and he knows he promised to step up. He is making, and has made, significant change. It’s just not quite good enough. Things get missed all the time - MOT overdue, missed school things with DC, massive food waste and mouldy food around, washing musty or too crumpled to use etc).

AbreathofFrenchair

He is doing a lot practically, but he’s not engaged with it mentally, if you see what I mean. So, he doesn’t put any effort into doing it well. He is in a process of moving from ‘doesn’t see it, doesn’t care about, doesn’t do it’ towards ‘does see it, does care, does do it’ - but is only about half way along and I think is getting fed up with the drudgery and wants out of it ideally. I can understand that but it’s not an option. Especially when you are parents. I think a podcast or book would help. The Fair Play cards did. So did ‘Real Life Organising’. I think it’s the feminist theory that’s missing. He doesn’t see his privilege and entitlement.

emptythelitterbox

I am not stepping in. But I am struggling with the consequences of that. I feel guilty about DC looking so grubby and our good friend not getting a birthday card from us all (he sent him a message from just him!).

TBH I have a deadline in my head, if this, and a few other things that are taking their toll on me mentally aren’t in significantly better shape by then, I will call time. By then I know we will both have done our best as we are both working hard at making changes and have been for some time.

A podcast or book is his thing. If he heard about ‘emotional Labour’ and ‘mental load’ from an external source he wouldn’t be able to fob them off as ‘internet rubbish’. He’s an intelligent man who loves learning so I think it could help.

Squamata

Aw. Thanks. I didn’t feel judged. 😊

I never thought I’d say this but I kind of wish I had a husband with high earning power and I could just do it myself. I don’t really want to be the breadwinner but I have much higher earning potential.

How old are the DC?

emptythelitterbox

middle childhood

You probably need the book/cards Fair Play by Eve Rodsky which is about dividing labour. Not read it as I'm a single parent but heard good things!

CocoPlum

Thank you. I sometimes wonder if it has some benefits just doing it all yourself. I sometimes feel a bit sabotaged by him!

We have the fair play cards and have divided them but he’s not interested in setting minimum care standards or reviewing them. I didn’t get the book. I Just listened to it and I didn’t think he’d like it. I need something fairly academic for him, that explains a bit about feminist theory in terms of domestic arrangements.

I’ve heard so many posters talk about ‘the mental load’ and emotional Labour’ that women tend to do/hold. There must be a good source of information on it somewhere. I’ll google it, but thought may be there would be a recommendation. I’ll have a listen to Invisible Women as recommended but sounds like that’s not going to cover those things?

Used an AI bot…

Emotional labor refers to the effort required to manage one's own emotions and the emotions of others in a professional or social setting (Hochschild, 1983).
Mental load refers to the mental effort required to manage and plan for the practical aspects of daily life (Côté, 2016).
Both emotional labor and mental load are often disproportionately shouldered by women in society (Baker, 2016; Williams & Allard, 2018).
Recognizing and acknowledging the emotional labor and mental load that your partner or other women in your life may be experiencing can help to reduce the burden on them (Williams & Allard, 2018).
Sharing tasks and responsibilities, such as household chores and child care, can help to distribute the emotional labor and mental load more evenly (Baker, 2016).
Being aware of and sensitive to the emotional needs of those around you, and actively working to meet those needs, can also reduce the emotional labor and mental load on others (Hochschild, 1983).
Listening actively, validating feelings, and offering support and help can also help to reduce emotional labor (Hochschild, 1983).
Taking responsibility for your own emotions, and not expecting others to constantly manage them, can also help to reduce emotional labor (Hochschild, 1983).
Being mindful of the language and tone used in communication can also help to reduce emotional labor (Baker, 2016).
Recognizing that emotional labor and mental load are real and important issues can help to create a more equitable and supportive environment for everyone (Côté, 2016; Williams & Allard, 2018).
References:

Baker, A. (2016). The emotional labor of SES: How socioeconomics shapes emotion regulation. Social Psychology Quarterly, 79(1), 1-24.

Côté, S. (2016). Mental load: A feminist issue. Journal of Social Politics, 45(2), 311-328.

Hochschild, A. R. (1983). The managed heart: Commercialization of human feeling. University of California Press.

Williams, J. C., & Allard, L. (2018). Emotional labor in the workplace: A review and critique. Journal of Organizational Behavior, 39(1), 2-23.

Next time it comes up I’ll send him this 😄

There is a book called Fair Play which is supposed to address exactly this. I haven't read it but I heard about it on a podcast.

I mean, there's loads of research showing women do more in the home, you both know that, right? What do you want a book to do - provide an organisational framework?

I think it's more about motivation than organisation? If you had the world's best system, would he follow it?

Which AI bot did you use that gives references?

Someone on here shared this. I thought it was great vardgivare.skane.se/siteassets/3.-kompetens-och-utveckling/projekt-och-utveckling/jamstallt-foraldraskap/material-foraldrar/checklist-for-gender-equality-in-your-everyday-life.pdf

Thought this article was good
time.com/5690007/divide-household-chores-fairly/

Kate Mangino - book looks interesting. There's you tube and audible link. Not sure if they are the book or talking about it
m.youtube.com/watch?v=LD6cLevpIK4
www.audible.co.uk/pd/Kate-Mangino-Equal-Partners-Improving-Gender-Equality-at-Home-St-Martins-Press-2022-Podcast/B0BDF9NJRF