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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be dismayed by the lack of real effort men have to make - and they still manage to succeed

63 replies

thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 17:16

Ok this should probably be on the feminist forum but interested to hear your thoughts here.
I was at a business breakfast this morning (Northern Ireland) aimed at helping SMEs gain funding. early start…
When we got there……
The Room was full of men (only about 2 other women there). All the speakers were men. The room smelt like it was full of men. Most of them were very mediocre speakers. Some couldn’t really be bothered dressing in a professional manner (covered in dandruff etc).
The food, organised by a man was sausage baps and bacon baps.
I asked for some bread without a sausage so I could put my banana in it was was told ‘no’, ‘take yer sausage out and give it to your husband to eat’!!!
The whole thing had hilarious David Brent vibes. At one stage my husband asked me if I had seen Fitchy around! (Of ‘while you’re down there love’ fame)
OK. So, Aibu to be dissatisfied with the fact that many men simply get away with making very little effort.? And still dominate the world of business? Or is this just a Northern Ireland thing? There loads of ‘women in business forums’ but it’s a pity women aren’t more involved ‘organically’ in all spheres of business at senior levels. A youngish woman came in after 9am (missing the baps!). She probably did the school run first.

OP posts:
LlynTegid · 20/01/2023 18:38

I wish it was only an outlying example.

Unless things have changed in the last ten years, happens in the rest of the UK, judging by some of the invites I have had. Now working in the public sector I am not allowed such jollies and events, and am glad for it.

Business breakfasts are unfair to those with children.

SavoirFlair · 20/01/2023 18:43

I mean, business breakfasts are horrendous - I’m so lucky I don’t have to go to such things and only had to twice in my career.

They’re often inhabited by man spreading bores who hope you’ll catch their BMW X3 or Audi Q5 🫣🤣 in the car park and believe they’ve made it.

What sector are you in?

the legal (outing) conferences I go to have plenty of women, confident, food is varied, but I appreciate that’s a different sector.

Regional business, industry get togethers, can be a bit 1980s I hear that.

It needs more women voices like you to ridicule, shame, maybe drive change

Cheesetoastiesz · 20/01/2023 18:49

Well business lunches are usually packed with people in general who don’t make much of an effort, most who are actually successful don’t go spending time with dandruff Dave and High trouser Helen on a Friday lunchtime

Mtngfres · 20/01/2023 18:51

I've lost count of the number of mediocre men I come across in business. So many get so far on waffle, confidence and bullshit. No substance at all. YANBU

Mtngfres · 20/01/2023 18:56

We had one at my workplace not long ago. Came from a well known company, very very confident - loved a bit of banter and on paper was pretty impressive.

Few weeks into the role, it became obvious He had survived on charm and chatter in previous roles as when asked to produce actual work or bring anything of substance to the table, he simply couldn't. The rest of the team were women and soon his fragile ego began to falter as he saw that he couldn't wing it.

I fired him.

EBearhug · 20/01/2023 18:57

Sadly all too depressingly familiar. They're probably the same ones that claim to be totally supportive of women in their industry, and are mystified why there are more women in It/finance/etc/etc/etc...

DanseAvecLesLoups · 20/01/2023 19:01

Which industry is this? I work in engineering, and the idea that you can bluff, bullshit and waffle your way through multimillion pound projects and still have a job at the end of it is laughable.

Original poster
thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:15

SavoirFlair · 20/01/2023 18:43

I mean, business breakfasts are horrendous - I’m so lucky I don’t have to go to such things and only had to twice in my career.

They’re often inhabited by man spreading bores who hope you’ll catch their BMW X3 or Audi Q5 🫣🤣 in the car park and believe they’ve made it.

What sector are you in?

the legal (outing) conferences I go to have plenty of women, confident, food is varied, but I appreciate that’s a different sector.

Regional business, industry get togethers, can be a bit 1980s I hear that.

It needs more women voices like you to ridicule, shame, maybe drive change

Thanks for the reply. I’m in the nursery business - prams etc. Ironically another industry dominated by males.

OP posts:
Hawkins001 · 20/01/2023 22:18

It's a mix at times

Original poster
thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:19

DanseAvecLesLoups · 20/01/2023 19:01

Which industry is this? I work in engineering, and the idea that you can bluff, bullshit and waffle your way through multimillion pound projects and still have a job at the end of it is laughable.

Nursery industry! Prams etc. amazingly pre historic man knows best what the wee lady needs. (Pram wise that is)

OP posts:
Original poster
thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:20

EBearhug · 20/01/2023 18:57

Sadly all too depressingly familiar. They're probably the same ones that claim to be totally supportive of women in their industry, and are mystified why there are more women in It/finance/etc/etc/etc...

Indeed!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:22

Mtngfres · 20/01/2023 18:56

We had one at my workplace not long ago. Came from a well known company, very very confident - loved a bit of banter and on paper was pretty impressive.

Few weeks into the role, it became obvious He had survived on charm and chatter in previous roles as when asked to produce actual work or bring anything of substance to the table, he simply couldn't. The rest of the team were women and soon his fragile ego began to falter as he saw that he couldn't wing it.

I fired him.

Good for you.

OP posts:
Original poster
thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:22

EBearhug · 20/01/2023 18:57

Sadly all too depressingly familiar. They're probably the same ones that claim to be totally supportive of women in their industry, and are mystified why there are more women in It/finance/etc/etc/etc...

Well said

OP posts:
EBearhug · 20/01/2023 22:26

Obviously I meant "why there aren't more women".

I can proofread, honest...

Detectorists · 20/01/2023 22:27

Yep. Men fail upwards don't you know! (Eyeroll)

TeapotTitties · 20/01/2023 22:28

YANBU about most of it.

But you've made a stereotypical assumption about the 'youngish woman' who came in at 9am, having probably done the school run.

Maybe she was hungover? Maybe she always planned to come in at 9? Do you know if she even has kids?

Original poster
thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:29

LlynTegid · 20/01/2023 18:38

I wish it was only an outlying example.

Unless things have changed in the last ten years, happens in the rest of the UK, judging by some of the invites I have had. Now working in the public sector I am not allowed such jollies and events, and am glad for it.

Business breakfasts are unfair to those with children.

So true. I had to call an uncle to drive ds to school.

OP posts:
Original poster
thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:33

TeapotTitties · 20/01/2023 22:28

YANBU about most of it.

But you've made a stereotypical assumption about the 'youngish woman' who came in at 9am, having probably done the school run.

Maybe she was hungover? Maybe she always planned to come in at 9? Do you know if she even has kids?

I genuinely got the impression that she had been rushing. And was stressed. Hence the school run assumption.

OP posts:
SugarCookieMonster · 20/01/2023 22:39

My new department head got handed his previous 2 roles, even after failing the first interview. Nobody else applied and they told him straight that his interview/presentation wasn’t good enough. Yet he was still given the job and got promoted again a few years later (only this time they didn’t bother with the interview).

Failing up indeed.

TeapotTitties · 20/01/2023 22:39

thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:33

I genuinely got the impression that she had been rushing. And was stressed. Hence the school run assumption.

Show quote history

Ok, I'm just saying that's a bit of a sexist assumption.

Not all youngish women have kids, or want kids, or have to do a school run/sort the childcare themselves.

I'm not being pedantic btw, it's just this sort of assumption can often hold young women back in the workplace.

Belatedeyebrows · 20/01/2023 22:43

I've never had a banana sandwich... (totally missing the point, I know!)

Original poster
thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:46

Belatedeyebrows · 20/01/2023 22:43

I've never had a banana sandwich... (totally missing the point, I know!)

Try banana and cheese on toast. !

OP posts:
Original poster
thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:53

TeapotTitties · 20/01/2023 22:39

Ok, I'm just saying that's a bit of a sexist assumption.

Not all youngish women have kids, or want kids, or have to do a school run/sort the childcare themselves.

I'm not being pedantic btw, it's just this sort of assumption can often hold young women back in the workplace.

Show quote history

Just suggesting that she may have been late due to child care issues. because, guess what,,,,Amazingly None of the men were late.
It’s not a ‘prejudice’ from my point of view, just an obversation that child care often, NOT ALWAYS, falls to the woman. It’s not ideal or fair of course.

OP posts:
Belatedeyebrows · 20/01/2023 22:54

@tthecatsmum12346, mate, I'm gonna do it!

TeapotTitties · 20/01/2023 23:45

thecatsmum12346 · 20/01/2023 22:53

Just suggesting that she may have been late due to child care issues. because, guess what,,,,Amazingly None of the men were late.
It’s not a ‘prejudice’ from my point of view, just an obversation that child care often, NOT ALWAYS, falls to the woman. It’s not ideal or fair of course.

Show quote history

I didn't say it was a prejudice, I said it was a bit of a sexist stereotype that can unhelpfully hold young women back in the workplace.

You've gone for 'late due to school run' when it could have been for a million different reasons, two very common ones being traffic or public transport.