WIBU to ask you to roleplay preschool scenarios with me?

[FlailingMouse]

Posting for traffic. DD is nearly 4 and has been in preschool for almost a year (we're not in the UK). The other kids are all 3 and 4 year olds. She's struggling a bit socially: she's always been sensitive and shy, some of the louder and more confident kids are excluding her, and telling her she cannot play with them / cannot touch a toy / cannot join in their games. Her response is either crying or hiding in a corner. She's always talking about it and how it makes her sad. Honestly it's breaking my heart a little.

Anyway, it's been suggested to me to roleplay scenarios during imaginative play and teach her more constructive ways to respond. But I have no idea what would be a helpful and constructive way to respond. I have autism (diagnosed as an adult) and was bullied a lot as a kid. I would respond in the exact same way, and never really learned an alternative - basically just waited till the people around me started behaving like adults and stopped being deliberately mean. So, how would you roleplay this scenario? What could she do or say? Do you know of any picture books that might give me some script suggestions?

Btw, my daughter is showing no signs of autism right now. I am alert because of my own experiences, but aside from being sensitive and shy, she's developing typically.

I think the key here would be to try and increase her confidence in general. The rest would hopefully follow.

Does she do any activities / clubs outside of preschool?

Anyway, it's been suggested to me to roleplay scenarios during imaginative play and teach her more constructive ways to respond

by whom? And perhaps they could advise?

If your daughter is only 4 I would expect the pre school staff to intervene. By all means do try to increase her confidence but also tell the staff. They can't force the other kids to play with her but they can help facilitate friendships and they can make sure that she has access to the toys.

I am not very socially skilled so can't help you with the role.playing ideas. What I started telling my ds (who was very Shy and lacked confident) was to not necessarily ask but to just join whatever play was going on. So if they are running around, just start running. Kids.love saying no so sometimes it's easier to not give them a chance. I have observed other kids and they just start playing or joining in without asking and most of the times the other kids don't question it.

Increasing her confidence is well and good, but a longterm plan, and we are working on that with her teachers.

But I just need really basic instructions like: when my daughter tells me that Annie wouldn't let her play in the sandbox with her, what should I say?

When we're playing with her dolls and she tells my doll that it cannot join the game, what should I make the doll say?

The sandbpx isn’t just your Annie! So let’s play together”

Sorry - I forgot to answer the questions.

I got this advice from reading books and articles on the subject. They often recommend roleplaying scenarios, but there are never scripts. I guess they just assume that we as parents have the social skills to know what to do or say intuitively.

DD doesn't do any other scheduled activities. Preschool is five days a week and it's a lot. We do do things on the weekend, like playgrounds, softplay, museums etc.

Can you ask your health visitor for advice? They might be able to suggest some resources.

Also I would google social stories for autism preschool - these should explain the kinds of expected responses. (I know you say she probably does not have autism, but it's a scenario I know they are used.)

Daniel Tiger is also a TV show that helps teach children social skills. There are lots of common scenarios that children will come across in everyday life and it shows you what the correct response is. They are on amazon Prime or some on youtube. You could watch them until you find a situation that is relevant to her, watch the eposide together and practice.

For that specific scenario you could say something like "OK, I'll see if somebody else wants to play."

Is she constantly being rejected by other kids, or do they let her play sometimes?

My husband plays a game with my 4yo where he is a young monster type character, who struggles to make friends, argues with her sister, whatever scenario is going on for her. He talks as the character in a funny voice, addresses DD directly and asks her for advice on what to do if someone doesn’t want to play at nursery. Turns out she knows lots of things to do, but possibly she just can’t manage it at times, due to being so wee! But it’s a good way for us to hear her thoughts.

Did you do naming and knowing different feelings and emotions? That can be a good starting point. Have you also done role playing turn taking “May I have a turn please?”, “it’s my turn” “your turn”. Those could be easier to role play to get in to it, before role playing conflict. www.kidly.co.uk/products/abrams-and-chronicle-books/feelings/8101

Verbalising how you feel and naming behaviours is a starting point. It’s not necessarily what you want her to say to other kids though, so not sure about role play.

phrases could be “That’s not nice” “I don’t like that” “that made me sad” “that’s rude” “please don’t do that” “why? I want to” “that’s not funny” “that hurt me”. That’s all come up with us when toddler has hit us or other behaviour and we’ve heard her repeat it with other children.

So sorry, it’s so hard when they struggle!

I think op, you can't expect Annie to play with her. Annie herself is just four and this is the age when they just start playing with each other. If you make your DD think that other kids have to play with her she'll just he disappointed.

I would say, "if Annie doesn't want to play with you today you that's fine. Find someone else to play with, ask her later again or play on your own next to Annie".

It's different if Annie doesn't allow her into the sand box. That's more complicated and the kind of scenario that stumps me. To be honest I'd say you don't have to listen to Annie as she doesn't own the sand box and if she physically tries to push you out either stand your ground (physically) or tell a teacher. I don't know if that's good advice but again it's what I see other kids do and they seem to be doing well socially.

If you are role playing I'd make my doll say (in a breezy cheerful voice) ": ok annie doll, no problem" and then the doll happily plays next to Annie or goes to another doll to play with.

I highly recommend the book "why it's ok not to share". It talks about situations like this and how to help your child talk and behave with other children.

I would also explain to the preschool staff what you have said here:

You're concerned about the interactions between DD and other children

When reading books and articles, they suggest role play, to practice.

The problem is, due to your own autism, you are unsure what the correct response should be.

Could they help, suggest any resources or let you know about current ongoing situations?

That's if you're comfortable disclosing autism to the staff - I think it would probably help for clarity, but it might be uncomfortable.

Love this!! Great idea.

They do let her play sometimes, but when they don't, she really lets it affect her.

When I ask her what she could do or say, she thinks she should respond with unreasonable force and anger (imo) ("NO! I CAN PLAY TOO! THAT IS NOT NICE!"). She never actually does this, though.

Then continue role playing. So when she responds with anger, your doll gets angry too and the situation escalates negatively or she tells on her to the teacher so she can see this isn't the best response. Then you can ask: what else could your doll do?

I really appreciate the suggestions so far!

I have not disclosed my autism to her teachers. There's a lot of prejudice around here where we live and I am quite good at masking and functioning like a neurotypical member of society, but when it comes to this I'm just really out of my depth.

Just book marking because I'm.interested in the replies as well.

I’d definitely ask staff for advice then all on same page. They should be supporting you with this.
Other activities might be good for her to develop skills. Is there equivalent to rainbows (Girlguides) where you are. They take from age 4 here and are good for building social skills.

What I always tell my DC is that sometimes people want to play with us, and sometimes they don't so we need to find someone else to play with or make up our own game. I would work on giving your DD the confidence to be a "game-creator" (i.e. sometimes she creates and controls the game and others choose to join in, rather than her always trying to join others' games).

My older DC went to a truly fantastic nursery and this was what the staff used to put emphasis on with the children and really stress. The more confident children could create their own games from day 1 and other children would join, but the staff really worked at helping the quieter, shyer children to do the same thing. They'd ask them what they wanted to play that day, then say "OK, Emily wants to play this, who wants to join?" and then Emily would be encouraged to assign roles and make up the rules of the game. They didn't just leave the children to play alone, although there was lots of free play too.

I've tried to do this with my DC in out-of-nursery settings such as playdates at home and when we're at the park around other children. For example, if we take some cars or animals to our local park and I start playing with them with DC, we usually get other children wanting to join in and play too.

I would say that this is really normal behaviour for 3 & 4 year olds. They are all learning about relationships and boundaries and how to play. There are always going to be people who don't want to play with you....even in adulthood. I think actually what the preschool needs to be doing is suggesting alternatives for her there and then in the moment ('Why don't we go see if Polly wants to play instead?') or encouraged kindness ('C'mom girls, we need to be kind, what can you share with Juliet to help her play with you?) and encouraging the friendships she is already forming. At 3/4 after a year, I would expect her to have a least 1 friend who attends who she likes to play with/who likes to play with her, and preschool should be supporting that relationship if it's a good one. I can't imagine a 4 year old will learn much from role playing. They are very little for that type of learning.

Then you can ask: what else could your doll do?

I would have absolutely no idea!

I know I would probably go and lock myself in the loo and read a book.

I am also reading that she cannot force kids to play with her, that makes sense, but what would be an appropriate way to respond if a group of kids are playing tag and won't let her join / chase her away?

Again, I know I would probably go and lock myself in the loo and read a book.

That is a good idea to ask her thoughts.

It sounds like she thinks she should be allowed to play, which is probably fair.

Could she go to the teacher in that scenario and say "Miss, Annie won't let me play in the sandpit!"

Teacher should then facilitate some kind of problem solving discussion between Annie and DD. The problem solving, practiced regularly, should help DD (and Annie!) to learn how to negotiate between themselves when they disagree about something.

It's difficult because in the scenario you give (asking to join a game of tag), my DC at that age wouldn't have asked. He would just have got stuck in playing. Occasionally someone might say to him, "No you can't play with us", but generally kids are much less likely to say no if someone just starts running around in the game than if they ask permission to join. It's a power thing, I think. If my then 4yo had been told he couldn't join, his usual response would be to announce loudly "OK, then I'm having my OWN game and it will be better than yours" and march off in a bit of a huff 😂.

If you don't want to disclose autism, you could just say "I don't remember being her age, what would you advise since you have a lot of experience with 3 year olds?"

One would hope that preschool staff might have more understanding than most about autism but you never know.

I second social stories 'when friends don't want to play'. All of the other kids are just figuring this out too though, so I'd encourage her not to take it to heart - saying things like: "Maybe Annie was feeling like she wanted some time alone. That's okay, everyone feels like that sometimes. You just need to take turns/find someone else to play with."

I don’t think that’s “unreasonable force” or “anger” for a 4yo. We’re teaching them to be 4yo not adults. It’s ok for her to respond like that for now, just as it’s not unreasonable for the 4yo in the playground how they’re behaving for their age group. The role playing is about practicing her having and using her own voice rather than practicing a grownup script, if I make sense?