To think that neglecting your child to death should be murder (warning: distressing content)

[Onnabugeisha]

I’ve been following the news on the horrendous murder of a vulnerable disabled girl, Kaylea Titford who died at age 16 due to the neglect of her parents.

TW Distressing Details
Kaylea was born with spina bifidia and hydrocephalus. She was a wheelchair user and had no mobility in her lower body. She was fed takeaways five nights a week until she became morbidly obese. Her parents did not ensure nutritious food or that her exercises were done. When the lockdown happened, her mum put to her bed and then left her to die. Kaylea tried to keep clean- they found milk bottles of urine around her bed and soiled puppy pads she was told to use for poo on the floor of her room. She was left unwashed, in soiled clothes & bed linen, with live maggots and flies crawling across her due to ulcerations from being obese and filthy. Six months later, she died in that bed. Only after her mum was sure she was dead did she call 999 for the paramedics who entered the nightmare of that room to the stench of urine, excrement and rotting flesh.

Her mother has plead guilty to manslaughter by gross negligence. Her father has pled not guilty and his trial is ongoing.

This was obviously a premeditated and planned campaign to slowly kill Kaylea in one of the worst and most degrading ways imaginable. I don’t understand how it cannot be murder. It seems to me it takes more evil intent and cruelty to slowly kill a child over six months than in six minutes.

Neglect has long been taken less seriously than physical or sexual abuse imho, even though it technically kills just as many children.

AIBU to think the charges should be murder, not manslaughter?

YANBU= should be murder
YABU= it’s manslaughter (accidental or unintended death)

Broadly I'd say it's not murder because inaction is not the same as intent. Neglect doesn't prove an intent to kill. Allowing someone to die through your inaction is not the same thing as deliberately taking action to kill them.

Superficially, yes I agree. If you were neglecting someone unintentionally and didn't know the outcome of your inaction could be death that's one thing.

But it's very hard to argue that they had no idea at some point she was dying, especially after months of extreme suffering. And then the ambulance was called when she was definitely dead. Was it a shock that she'd died? They had no idea she was so ill?

A lot of times there's an idea that neglect isn't quite as bad as being physically abused. That it wasn't as intentional as physical abuse is. While that can be the case, I also know personally that the neglectful abuser can play on "not knowing" to claim innocence (and victimhood!) themselves. But when aware their inaction was inflicting pain in someone chose to continue that inaction.

Choosing to be neglectful is just as bad as physically attacking someone.

I've followed this case worked with people with learning disabilities for a number of years. Some people with SEN are very food orientated. It's all they want they will kick punch , lash out if refused Some staff I've known have been left with broken ribs and limbs from refusing unlimited food, they will literally eat themselves to death if they can. You have to lock cupboards and have a meal plan at specific times. Food is a constant battle. It can be easier for parents to give in to honest. There's no excuse really if they couldn't cope they should have rang up SS even ambulance service and said they can't cope and are leaving her in the states care.

@Stroganoffo
but that doesn't explain the overall neglect or lack of any care at all.
I have 2 disabled children who need v high levels of round the clock care and lockdown was v tough. My husband and I cared for nearly a year for both of them without a minute off so I get the pressures I really do but there is no.justification for what they did to that poor girl.

I’ve only seen it reported that she had spinal bifida - a quick Google only returns results without ‘sen’. I may be wrong but as far I I can see Kayleas disabilities were entirely physical.

These people are monsters. Poor Kaylea, it's heartbreaking to think what she suffered.
The bastards absolutely murdered her.

@Kudja she also.had hydrocephalus so most likely would have had some neurological impairment as a result.

Isn't there a charge of "depraved indifference" in the US that can escalate manslaughter to murder?

Appalling case, that poor young woman.

Why does social services need to check? Had they been flagged as at risk, as otherwise they surely can't have time to check in on every single vulnerable person

Sorry, I don’t buy that. With a shunt there is no reason she wouldn’t have had not al
capacity and I feel if she had had any sort of learning difficulties the press would be reporting (I want to say ‘jumped on’) that

Normal capacity.

bloody autocorrect

It's a horrific case, but just reading about it more her mum clearly wasn't coping at all & it seems like her siblings were often the one asked to fetch her takeaways and she would scream the place down if she didn't get them.

This is common in some of those U.S. shows about super obese people.

Doesn't seem as simple as this thread suggests to be honest. 5 siblings living in the house which generally sounds like it was all pretty squalid.

Tragic nonetheless for the whole family.

As a parent of multiple disabled children lockdown was very hard. Support stopped. Luckily we invited disability socail care into our lives and our sw did visit us during covid. They didn't do their job, but they did show up. I think we was extremely lucky in some ways but I can see how if you have a mental breakdown and that go unnoticed. If there's zero support network. Who cares enough to see these invisible kids? It's complex and unpalatable

They sound from reports to have been completely inadequate, had several children, didn't manage cleaning and were poor/would not be surprised if there is both low literacy and SEND of their own (working as a carer and a removals worker on 50+ hours a week with at least 6 children doesn't suggest high levels of education, for a start).

Seeing as the articulate and literate posters on Mumsnet cannot get help when they are begging for it for their SEND children, it's not surprising that people not able to comprehend, cope or know to push for assistance with a young person were lost to the system.

They don't appear to be trying to escape or evade responsibility, the father is acknowledging in court that he was incompetent and could have done more - neither appear to be trying to blame each other or the system for any of it.

I hadn't heard about this poor girl and it sounds absolutely tragic. Just wanted to say though as the mother with a disabled ds, it is so difficult now to access social care. It really isn't a case of making a phone call and getting your child into residential care because you aren't coping. There are so many (often single) parents on their knees begging for help and the funding isn't there. Parents who relied on respite to keep themselves sane have had it stripped away. These are parents who have capacity and are very capable, so I can't imagine those with SEN would be able to jump through the necessary hoops and fight the case.

I did say there was no excuse parents should have phoned SS and said they couldn't cope. Or even left her at a&e which people do and relinquished care. Maybe they were getting a lot of money for her and didn't want it to stop?

I read a bit on this earlier, it was heartbreaking. The bit that got me in it all weirdly was where the dad said he'd last seen her 2 weeks previous on her birthday. He lived in the same house and never stuck his head round the door for 2 weeks. How long was it prior to that? Awful

That's not true spina bifida and hydrocephalus can result in learning disabilities not all but yes it happens.

@windyarse I'm referring to the parents of this child, who it has been inferred have great lack of awareness and possible learning disabilities. So calm yourself, this isn't about you.

And I have to apologise for the use of the SEN term actually. It's used on here all the time as a wide spectrum to mean any type of difficulty or disability, and I've started to use it too.

That's very much appreciated, but I do see where it comes from.

I have asked mumsnet to delete my comment, they may not but I have tried. I don't want to derail the thread and while I stand by what I say in regards to capacity I can see it was a badly judged reaction.

trouble is I don’t think it’s as easy as “just put her in a care home”. I have a friend with an adult daughter with downs and she’s now in supported living as my friend is forward planning for the day she will no longer be around but she had to fight really hard to get this. Someone without the intellectual capability wouldn’t be able to fight and then it’s just left to the parents

At the point that your child is suffering serious neglect it's actually really straightforward to have them removed from your care if you don't try to hide it. All they had to do was ring 999 in the weeks before her death. Maybe at the point where they couldn't be bothered to feed her anymore, or when her sores became infected by maggots.

They could call for take away but not a doctor. They could feed the other children but not this one.

This is such a sad case. Poor girl. I do think the parents are to blame, but they aren't the only ones.

On another note, I hate the way some papers have been using headlines implying it was just that they let her become obese, when there was a lot more to it. People skim reading probably think the parents did nothing more than fail to get her on a diet.

Yes at the point before she dies something might happen if you ring 999 and say I have seriously neglected my daughter she is about to drop dead but it has to get to that point or close. If you ring up and say thst you are not coping and that your child is becoming aggressive and you are worried about safety in the home (not saying the child was aggressive in this case but as am example), in this case you will possibly be referred for assessment, maybe not, wait for assessment is likely to be months, worse in pandemic and then if you get any support it will be a couple of hours a week thst you have through direct payments so have to sort the payroll, insurance etc all yourself. Not saying the parents have no blame but let’s not pretend it’s a case of ringing up and thr support will arrive, maybe they had already called and were still waiting